Let me preface this by saying that I really like the new RadWagon 4. I received my bike on September 24 and since then I have put just over 50 miles on it.
Yesterday while riding to the post office, I heard a small pop and then a loud scraping sound. I quickly realized that the kickstand was dragging freely on the ground. I hopped off to see what happened and saw that the remaining kickstand spring had deformed so badly that it slipped out of its hole and there was no longer anything holding the kickstand up. Earlier in the week, I had found a deformed spring on the floor of my garage, but I couldn't place where it might have come from, so I threw it on the workbench and didn't think much more about it. Now I realize that the first spring had failed earlier in the week and the second spring finally gave way yesterday. Luckily, I was close to a store so I pushed the bike over and bought some zip-ties so I could at least make it home.
Here is what the springs looked like after failing:
(https://i.imgur.com/oTqLQ4r.jpg)
Initially, I thought that maybe the failure could be due to poor quality springs, so I made a trip to Lowe's to see if I could find some replacements. I ended up picking up a pair of these:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-2-Pack-3-1-8-in-Zinc-Gate-Extension-Spring/3120573
When I got home, I put the new springs on and everything seemed to work fine, so I assumed that the problem had been fixed. Yesterday evening, I rode the bike with my daughter to the park, and before we made it a few blocks, one of the new springs failed. Luckily, we were able to make it home with the remaining spring, but it likely wouldn't have survived much longer.
Here are the new springs after failing:
(https://i.imgur.com/DIbKBpi.jpg)
I took a closer look at how the springs attached to the kickstand, and I realized that this isn't a materials failure, but rather an engineering failure. The kickstand is designed in such a way that the springs are over-extended and bent at an extreme angle when the kickstand is down. This leads to the spring ends deforming and eventually pulling out of their mounting holes:
(https://i.imgur.com/Xe6JzJ9.jpg)
Since the closest Lowe's to me is ten miles away, I picked up an extra set of springs on my earlier trip. Knowing that the springs would likely just fail again if I put them back on the same way, I decided to mount them differently. I ended up wrapping some stainless-steel mechanic's wire around the frame of the bike to create some temporary spring mounts. This allows the springs to hold the kickstand up while riding, and avoids the extreme bent spring angle when the kickstand is in the down position:
(https://i.imgur.com/xnFfFB4.jpg)
I will try this solution for a while, and if it ends up working well I will machine up some stays to take place of the wire.
I opened a ticket with Rad tech support, but I haven't received any response.
Hopefully this will help others. I'm looking forward to seeing if this is an issue that others experience.
I am really enjoying this bike, but it is essentially useless without a kickstand, especially since I am using it mainly to haul my five year old daughter to school, the park, the grocery store, etc... Without a kickstand, it seems pretty dangerous for a kiddo to try and climb aboard.
Has anyone else had this issue with their new RadWagon?
Yes, I experienced the same issue with my brand new RadWagon 4. I had the bike assembled on September 26, 2020 and the springs deformed and fell off within the first week of very light use. I contacted Rad tech support and just yesterday 10/8 got confirmation of new springs shipment. In the meantime, I put the springs back on and cramped the ends a bit... Thanks for your investigation and photos. I will rethink my springs install. I'm happy with the bike otherwise.
I think I'll try crimping the ends over too to see if that helps. I considered doing this last night, but we just moved and my bench vise is buried somewhere in a mountain of boxes in the garage. I figured that Rad would just offer to send out new springs, but I don't see how this is ever going to fix the problem. I can only assume that any new springs they send will fail in the same way.
I just became a new radwagon 4 owner today. I bought mine used (10 days old with 41 miles on the odo). This is great info! Thanks for the write up and the pictures. I'm going to look at my kickstand springs and keep an eye on this.
When I rode the bike home today I heard the kickstand banging & jiggling a bit on the road. When I got home I saw that one of the kickstand hex bolts was loose so I tightened it. I'm reading up on the forum now to see what else I need to check out too.
Thanks for posting about the issue and your detailed fix. Great stuff!
Quote from: jasonash on October 09, 2020, 10:01:47 AM
I think I'll try crimping the ends over too to see if that helps. I considered doing this last night, but we just moved and my bench vise is buried somewhere in a mountain of boxes in the garage. I figured that Rad would just offer to send out new springs, but I don't see how this is ever going to fix the problem. I can only assume that any new springs they send will fail in the same way.
Hey Jason I'd love to see what you decide on your final fix mod of the kickstand springs.
I checked out my RadWagon 4 after reading your post and getting it home tonight. I saw that one of my springs is missing and the other is failing and bent like you discovered. So I imagine that ALL of us RadWagon 4 owners will have this "spring fail" engineering issue like you anticipated.
I'm going to go to the hardware store and try and mimic your spring fix on my ebike tomorrow.
Here's a picture of my missing spring and the lone currently failing spring in full bent position.....
Hey Gopam. I still haven't made any permanent fixes to the kickstand springs. I don't have access to a machine shop right now, but I'm hoping that I can machine up some more permanent "clamps" to take the place of the temporary wire holds I fashioned. The geometry of the springs in this orientation seems to have solved the over-extension/over-bending problem with the stock location.
If you do try to duplicate my fix, please make sure to get stainless steel wire, otherwise it will quickly become a rusty mess. Also, be sure to make plenty of wraps around the support tubes. I think I made ~ 6-7 wraps on each side and then twisted the two ends tightly together and folded them flat. The more wraps you make, the stronger the hold.
GoPam,
I was looking at your image, and it looks like your kickstand is also missing a washer and locknut on the left side:
(https://i.imgur.com/j77eFJM.jpg)
You should definitely get this fixed too as the kickstand will bind up if the bolt falls out.
Jason
That is definitely an engineering error. They should have welded loops behind that bar to attach the springs.
Quote from: jasonash on October 12, 2020, 06:50:14 AM
GoPam,
I was looking at your image, and it looks like your kickstand is also missing a washer and locknut on the left side:
(https://i.imgur.com/j77eFJM.jpg)
You should definitely get this fixed too as the kickstand will bind up if the bolt falls out.
Jason
Aha yes Jason you are correct. Thanks for looking out! I'll go pick up a new washer and locknut along with new extension springs. Gotta get this bike in tip top shape.
Well here's my RadWagon 4 temp kickstand spring fix video as I tried to mimic Jason's fix. Huge thanks to Jason, you're my current hero right now. You'll see my hardware store was out of stainless steel wire so for now I did a temp fix with one new spring using galvanized wire. I plan on RE-fixing it later with stainless steel wire and both NEW springs.
I need to pull out the side kickstand bolt to bring it to the hardware store to figure out what size washer and locknut to buy. I don't supposed anybody knows that info before I remove it??? Jason do you know? Do you want to go for ULTRA Hero status? haha. Thanks so much for looking out Jason!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6ZCrIUHF5o
Hey GoPam,
You'll need an M8 Nyloc nut and M8 washer to replace the missing parts.
Cheers,
Jason
Quote from: jasonash on October 13, 2020, 05:28:57 PM
Hey GoPam,
You'll need an M8 Nyloc nut and M8 washer to replace the missing parts.
Cheers,
Jason
Ultra Hero Status earned!!! Thank you!!!!!
(https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/GUEST_1d9588b4-203e-45cc-b404-56ebdc0f8c9c?wid=325&hei=325&qlt=80&fmt=pjpeg)
Thanks for posting this. I got my new RadWagon 4 in September and after ~40 miles of riding, I noticed that one of the kickstand springs was missing. (The kickstand was rattling around a lot going over bumps, so I took a look). The second spring was pretty well bent too and was close to failing.
I found this post with a quick search and was happy to find it! Today, I added two new springs and attached one end in the location suggested by Jason. I ended up using small hose clamps instead of wire for the attachment points. Early tests have been successful and hopefully the fix will last.
I also emailed Rad support, but it seems that they are a bit overwhelmed right now and I have not heard back yet.
Overall, I love my RadWagon, despite this annoying issue. :)
I contacted Rad when my springs failed, and they simply sent me a new set of springs. I haven't put them on because I assume they will likely fail in the exact same way. It will be interesting to see how many other RadWagon owners will experience the same issue.
It seems the only "real" fix would be a redesign of the failed geometry, but this would be pretty costly for Rad to implement. We will see.
New springs are on the way from Rad. It seems like that's their approach for now. Interestingly, they added a new help topic related to kickstand springs this week: https://radpowerbikes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360058022653-RadWagon-4-Kickstand-Spring-Replacement-Guide
It's funny. The new help topic from Rad shows them installing the springs rotated exactly 180 degrees out from where they are installed from the factory.
For example, here is a picture that goPam posted showing her failed spring, which is exactly how I discovered mine failing. Notice how the spring ends are installed as to come up from the bottom through the holes:
(https://i.imgur.com/TMckdQI.jpg)
But if you look at the help topic from Rad, they show them installed in a rotated orientation with the ends of the springs inserted into the top of the holes instead of the bottom:
(https://i.imgur.com/8Ay9ZTg.jpg)
I'm not sure this will make much difference, but I might give it a shot to see what happens. It seems to me that the way the springs are extended and bent when the stand is down will lead them to fail not matter what orientation they are installed, but I'll give it a try.
They sent me two extra pairs of springs, which I find interesting. Maybe the factory installed the springs backwards from spec?
For what it's worth: My new RW4 was delivered about three weeks ago with the upper hooks of the springs facing forward and the lower hooks facing aft. After many kickstand cycles, they are still in perfect condition!
Thanks for this thread!
My Radwagon 4 just had the spring shear off at about the 70 mile mark. Fortunately I had been messing with the brake pads and had my hex keys with me as a result. Would have been SOL 6 miles from home if I didn't have them! Haven't done a replacement yet but I need to. Getting tired of having no kickstand-- it's a heavy bike to not have one, extra difficult when I have stuff in my baskets.
My Radwagon was delivered at the end of September. I have about 270 km on the odometer and yesterday I noticed that one of the springs was missing, so I am experiencing the same issue. Even with both springs the kickstand has a tendency to bang around while riding even over small bumps. This is annoying. I noticed that if I have a passenger on the back then the kickstand does not make any sound. Maybe the extra weight of the passenger dampens the motion of the back of the bike?
I got this as an alternative while I figure out my kickstand problem:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1034753207/standkeeper-for-radwagon-4
It works reasonably well but does occasionally pop out when I'm going fast over larger bumps in the road.
I think combining this to take some of the stress off of the springs will be a good approach