There was an old thread about this, but I'll start a new one. I'm interested in general opinions--are these advisable, more trouble than they are worth, etc.--and if they are a good idea, which ones? I have some opinions to share later.
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I'm not sure how to respond to the hand signal graphic--are you saying those are all you need? Or perhaps that I'm not aware you can use hand signals? I do know the basic hand signals; they require taking one hand far off of the handlebars, and they may not be very visible in some situations.
I don't want to take my hands off from handlebar, so I bought WingLights POP's from local shop.
https://cycl.bike/products/winglights-pop
Visibility could be better in daylight and I can't use them with my new SQlab 710 grips.
Quote from: Hehateme on April 11, 2022, 07:28:37 PM
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[/quote
i see things like this, and i think two things:
1. I don't want to remove my hands that far off the handlebars when I'm preparing to make a turn.
2. Most cyclists, much less people who are driving in cars, don't know those hand signals. If the person in the car doesn't know what that signal means, it is literally a useless gesture.
I use Lumos helmet when I am riding a smaller bike. When I am on my Radwagon I have this turn signal installed on the back and front of my bike:
https://amzn.to/3Litt3R
;D I see what you did there.
Quote from: Hehateme on April 11, 2022, 07:28:37 PM
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I wouldn't put blinkers on my ebike, 325, if I were you, unless you intend to ride right out in traffic like a car or motorcycle. On a bike, over in the curb, I think they would be easy to miss, and perhaps give the cyclist a feeling of overconfidence. I trust drivers about as far as I can throw them. There are definitely times when I need to let a car, truck, bus driver know what I'm about to do, and for that, I turn my head and look them straight in the eye. I wave or point if necessary to get their attention. When I'm confident that we are on the same wavelength, I smile, wave thanks or give the thumbs up, and ease over, say, into the left turn lane, or whatever.
In my opinion (you asked)
Quote from: jastewart325 on April 11, 2022, 05:39:40 PM
There was an old thread about this, but I'll start a new one. I'm interested in general opinions--are these advisable, more trouble than they are worth, etc.--and if they are a good idea, which ones? I have some opinions to share later.
Quote from: NaturallyRC on April 12, 2022, 01:19:44 PM
I wouldn't put blinkers on my ebike, 325, if I were you, unless you intend to ride right out in traffic like a car or motorcycle. On a bike, over in the curb, I think they would be easy to miss, and perhaps give the cyclist a feeling of overconfidence. I trust drivers about as far as I can throw them. There are definitely times when I need to let a car, truck, bus driver know what I'm about to do, and for that, I turn my head and look them straight in the eye. I wave or point if necessary to get their attention. When I'm confident that we are on the same wavelength, I smile, wave thanks or give the thumbs up, and ease over, say, into the left turn lane, or whatever.
In my opinion (you asked)
Very well put; I go for eye contact and if necessary, pointing - learned this valuable advice a hundred years ago during MSF motorcycle training. Don't trust drivers - you will ALWAYS lose no matter who's "right". And turn signals on what everybody regards as a bicycle might be so unusual that it might take a driver's focus off the bike and rider, increasing risk.
Thumbs up emoji. On rare occasions, I have had to tap the hood of a car to get someone's attention when they are REALLY not being safe, but I don't recommend this in jurisdictions where drivers are allowed to carry firearms.
Quote from: JimInPT on April 12, 2022, 01:37:14 PM
Very well put; I go for eye contact and if necessary, pointing - learned this valuable advice a hundred years ago during MSF motorcycle training. Don't trust drivers - you will ALWAYS lose no matter who's "right". And turn signals on what everybody regards as a bicycle might be so unusual that it might take a driver's focus off the bike and rider, increasing risk.
Eye contact, pointing, hand signals are all good but difficult to apply in lots of situations, e.g., night riding. Why not add blinkers? Overconfidence resulting from the observation that they work? Also, I don't see a danger of a motorist losing control of their car because they are so astounded at blinkers on a bike.
I have tried a couple of options that have already been mentioned: Cycl Winglights and the Antfire or Aiguozer system (they appear to be the same product). I really wanted to like the Winglights--a simple and elegant solution--but the dealbreaker for me was no audible feedback (no beeping). For me,having to look to see if they are on is a major drawback. Also, with the backward-curving handlebars on my City 5 Plus, they may be less visible from the front. I now have the Aiguozer system with front and back signals and some other flashing modes, and overall, I like it a lot.
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Depends on how you ride. I added turn signals to my Runner+ but rarely have to use them since I mainly try to ride on bike/walk trails. However, when I do ride on the streets I'm glad I have them.
Video I made about my setup: https://youtu.be/tNjq6wctpLI
Sharing my setup of Antfire turn signal on my Radwagon: https://youtu.be/Yn-x984RKjE (https://youtu.be/Yn-x984RKjE)
Rabi, I like your setup on your RW4. Very nice.
I recently added turn signals to my RadWagon. I've got them, as well as the other ancillary lighting on my bike, running off a rechargeable 12v battery pack.
Here's a quick video: https://i.imgur.com/4NquNrk.mp4 (https://i.imgur.com/4NquNrk.mp4)
Rabi--
I like your setup too. The Antfire or Aiguozer system is working well for me, but I will try mounting the front ones on the brake levers for better separation than on the front fork, where I have them now.
Quote from: jastewart325 on May 10, 2022, 10:30:18 PM
Rabi--
I like your setup too. The Antfire or Aiguozer system is working well for me, but I will try mounting the front ones on the brake levers for better separation than on the front fork, where I have them now.
Beware that brake levers are usually not in a good shape so you need to use a tighter band to hold the signal lights. Other than that I quite like having them so high up to maximise the visibility. Hope you find this work for you too.
I now have them on my Rad City 5 Plus brake levers, and I think they can be made to work well with the standard bands; I add a bit of double-sided mounting tape to hold them better.
Quote from: rabi on May 09, 2022, 03:52:16 AM
Sharing my setup of Antfire turn signal on my Radwagon: https://youtu.be/Yn-x984RKjE (https://youtu.be/Yn-x984RKjE)
I like how the turn signal beeps. I always forget to turn mine off.
Jim
Quote from: Hehateme on April 11, 2022, 07:28:37 PM
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These hand signals from Bern Philippines's facebook do not quite jive with what is taught motorcyclists (yes, they also use them) here in Ontario, which is likely typical of North American usage (I learned to ride and drive in another jurisdiction, where those same signals are used). Hee is an interesting read on the topic, with a no-nonsense pictorial https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-ministry-transportation-mto-motorcycle-handbook/communicating-other-drivers
Alternately, from the Harvard School of Public Health:
(https://cdn1.sph.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/115/2012/09/Bike-signals1.jpg)
For me, these diagrams would be more useful if they showed the cyclist turning his head like the Exorcist girl, to scout for vehicles. Focusing straight ahead while holding out one puny arm is a sure-fire way to be knocked off your bike by your typical motorist, sadly.
Quote from: NaturallyBikes on May 25, 2022, 05:18:21 AM
For me, these diagrams would be more useful if they showed the cyclist turning his head like the Exorcist girl, to scout for vehicles. Focusing straight ahead while holding out one puny arm is a sure-fire way to be knocked off your bike by your typical motorist, sadly.
I guess you're one of those people who need to have everything spelled out. O fourse, you check for the traffic behind and your surrondings in general before signalling. A bar-end mirror (Mirrycle bike mirror comes to mind; i can't ride without it. Mind you, with 50 years of driving a car, checking in my rear-view mirror is second nature even on a bike).
My points were:
-1: (to answer the original poster): I would not rely on tiny, gadgety bar-end lights to signal my intentions. Nor on small rear blinking lights that may very well be invisible from certain angles.
-2: (with respect to the signal chart posted previously): those signals are not the standard, at least here in North-America. Whle the chart may be fine for the Philippines, it is not quite accurate here. If we are to tell people to sgnal, just as well that we show them what the standard signals are. In other words, make sure everybody speaks and understands the same language.
And I'll keep checking my rear-view mirror to make sure it is safe to signal and follow up (with a shoulder check where warranted, especially for left-hand turns).
YMMV
Quote from: Kari on April 12, 2022, 08:18:53 AM
I don't want to take my hands off from handlebar, so I bought WingLights POP's from local shop.
https://cycl.bike/products/winglights-pop
Visibility could be better in daylight and I can't use them with my new SQlab 710 grips.
I hated to take my left hand off the handlebar because it meant I had to apply tremendous torque to my right wrist to keep my body inertia from causing the steering to swerve on rough pavement. Very soon after buying my Radrunner, I had severe tennis elbow. The solution was a layback seat post, which I could support with a triangle of plywood on the Radrunner rack. Sitting 7" farther behind the bottom bracket, I could brace with my feet, not wrist torque. That was 16 months ago. My tennis elbow soon healed.
I use hand signals and a big, flat, old-school mirror. I don't feel safe relying on a convex mirror.
Quote from: Hehateme on April 11, 2022, 07:28:37 PM
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You left off the one you get most often, Fred...(https://www.radowners.com/Themes/default/images/theme/frame_repeat.png)
Is anyone here still looking for blinkers? I'm looking to build a prototype to address this problem and I'm curious what people really want out of their blinkers.
For example, is it just better visibility to not get hit by cars? Maybe you want the blinker to make a sound so you know if your blinker is on/off without having to look? Perhaps you want custom colors for blinkers?
Any input is appreciated!
I will post pictures of a prototype quickly if I see there is enough interest!
I'm on the lookout for a front & rear set of lights, but in the meantime I bought these Husqvarna "Classic Work Gloves" to make my hand signals more visible. The grey logo and wavy wrist stripe are retro-reflective. They're quite comfortable with a decent grip and a breathable fabric.
(https://www-static-nw.husqvarna.com/-/images/aprimo/husqvarna/gloves/photos/studio/h410-1191.webp?v=d301202fe00e823d&format=WEBP_LANDSCAPE_CONTAIN_MD)
I give my fingers a wiggle then point steadily.
If I ever do install some turn signals I'll still be wearing these for protection.
About the right-turn hand signal made with the left arm - I'm pretty sure that originated in the very early days of automobiles when they didn't have blinky lights (or flags that flip out = "Trafficators"). Either the cab or a passenger on the right would obscure one made with the right arm.
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I imagine they are still legit to use in a car temporarily if you discover that you have a faulty signal lamp.
Quote from: John Rose on October 13, 2023, 05:27:25 PM
I'm on the lookout for a front & rear set of lights, but in the meantime I bought these Husqvarna "Classic Work Gloves" to make my hand signals more visible. The grey logo and wavy wrist stripe are retro-reflective. They're quite comfortable with a decent grip and a breathable fabric.
I'm afraid your link (embedded as an image) is all biffed up and even after extracting the good bits, it doesn't work. Could you retry, please? (you can click Modify to edit instead of creating a new post)
Quote from: John Rose on October 13, 2023, 05:27:25 PM
I give my fingers a wiggle then point steadily.
If I ever do install some turn signals I'll still be wearing these for protection.
About the right-turn hand signal made with the left arm - I'm pretty sure that originated in the very early days of automobiles when they didn't have blinky lights (or flags that flip out = "Trafficators"). Either the cab or a passenger on the right would obscure one made with the right arm.
I imagine they are still legit to use in a car temporarily if you discover that you have a faulty signal lamp.
Last year I bought ski gloves that weren't reflective. I cut the end of the left thumb off because the push buttons on the handlebar control often didn't work right. Then I found out the Radpower controller was flaky and the gloves hadn't caused that. My thumb got pretty cold because I didn't know how to tape the end back on the glove. Reflective insulated gloves would be great.
Turn signals became standard in the 1960s. Before that, they were an option but I think not a factory-installed option. I can imagine why manufacturers were slow to adopt them. First, you might confuse everyone by leaving them on. Second, you might be relying on a bulb that was burnt out. The thermal flasher helped. It would make a noise to tell you the flasher was on even if you didn't see the indicator in daylight, and a slow rate would tell you if a bulb was out.
My uncle had aftermarket flashers on his F-250 and his flatbed truck. Behind a loaded truck, a driver might not see a hand signal. The control boxes were mounted high, where the driver would see and hear them. They weren't self-canceling.
A hundred yards up the 20mph street from my house is a T intersection where another 20 mph street comes in from the right. In 2010, a neighbor lived across from the stop sign. One day she stopped, then turned left to to go to her driveway a few yards up the street. The new local cop ticketed her for failure to signal.
I thought the law required signaling only when failure to do so could cause an accident. (It's funny, because I think if leaving a signal on causes an accident, the misled driver could still be blamed.)
I checked the latest state manual and I was right. In this case, nobody has a right of way to pass at a T intersection, so the burden would have been on the cop to provide an audible warning if he did so.
The manual said hand signals are still preferred; flashers are for night and bad weather.