I'm wondering if it is possible to upgrade the mechanical disc brakes on the Rad Expand 5 to hydraulic disk breaks? If so, has anyone had any success?
Yes, no problem. Fitting is the same. Only problem can be if cable/hose is inside frame.
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Thanks but I have a folding bike requirement. :(
Thanks folks ... I guess I will bring the bike to my local bike shop. Sounds like it is possible.
rsghowellnj, one can install hydraulic brakes that have the hydraulic fluid mostly just in the callipers. The brakes are activated with cables like mechanical brakes. According to reviews I've read they are better than mechanical brakes but not quite as good as fully hydraulic systems. They would work for your folding bike.
If you choose to try them then you would simply change the mechanical callipers for hydraulic ones and then adjust the cables so they work. I imagine they would also come with some simple instructions.
Ddaybc,
How that is real cool. All I'm trying to do is get to a point where the breaks don't have to be adjust ever other time I ride. The issue from what I understand it is with the mechanical calipers very hydraulic calipers. Thank you fro the tip. I will check with my bike shop to see about this type of change up.
Awesome and thank you for the tip!
I've been thinking about adding these to my radrunner https://area13ebikes.com/products/juintech-m1-hydraulic-calipers-easy-install-on-most-ebikes
Cable-pull hydraulic calipers can be a good way to upgrade. Avoid the Catazer calipers on Amazon. I'm still recovering from injuries due to them. The Juintech brakes look good, and I may order a set to try them out. Bolton (now renamed to Area 13) carries full hydraulic brakes for Rad bikes.
Quote from: SQFRad on April 02, 2022, 01:51:14 PM
I've been thinking about adding these to my radrunner https://area13ebikes.com/products/juintech-m1-hydraulic-calipers-easy-install-on-most-ebikes
Thanks for the link. I ordered a set to try out.
I just ordered a set of the Juintech M1 brake calipers from Bolton/Area13 yesterday. In stock and $20 less expensive than Amazon. Thanks for the tips on this thread to give them a try!
Quote from: rsghowellnj on April 01, 2022, 03:21:33 PM
Thanks folks ... I guess I will bring the bike to my local bike shop. Sounds like it is possible.
The Juintech M1 hydraulic calipers ($149 at Bolton, $169 Amazon) are a pretty easy drop-in replacement for the stock Rad mechanical calipers ( https://velomobileshop.com/products/juintech-m1-hydraulic-calipers-easy-install-on-most-ebikes (https://velomobileshop.com/products/juintech-m1-hydraulic-calipers-easy-install-on-most-ebikes) ); Bolton has a 3-year old Youtube vid showing how: https://youtu.be/eqR-k3C-6nk (https://youtu.be/eqR-k3C-6nk)
Unless you're really skittish about working with tools (a 5 mm hex wrench and a cutter/crimper like needlenose pliers are all you need), there's no need to spend the money having a shop do the work. I've ordered a set and will install in a week or two.
Wow the The Juintech M1 hydraulic calipers seems like a really easy upgrade to do myself. Has anyone been successful with this upgrade on a RAD bike that they could share their experience and how well they work? My goal is to reduct the amount of break adjustments. I'm hoping that hydraulic calipers will require less maintenance. I also noticed a color difference on the Calipers that are sold from Area13 and Amazon. Does anyone know the difference other than color?
Any of these available from EU? I allready have cheap cable operated hydraulic brakes on my RadMini 4. So I would prefer something better quality this time.
Quote from: rsghowellnj on April 05, 2022, 08:00:16 AM
Wow the The Juintech M1 hydraulic calipers seems like a really easy upgrade to do myself. Has anyone been successful with this upgrade on a RAD bike that they could share their experience and how well they work? My goal is to reduct the amount of break adjustments. I'm hoping that hydraulic calipers will require less maintenance. I also noticed a color difference on the Calipers that are sold from Area13 and Amazon. Does anyone know the difference other than color?
I'll know in a few days; my M1's have shipped from Bolton. There are a number of comments on the product page there from people who installed them easily, including Rad owners - I don't expect any difficulty since these mounting interfaces seem to be pretty standardized, as you'd expect in a market that buys components from multiple suppliers.
I believe the color difference is among different models; Juintech has an R1 for a lower price on Amazon and Bolton's M1 is cheaper than Amazon for the same model. I haven't researched the differences between models, but I like Bolton and happy to give them more business.
As for adjustments, you'll still have a bit of stretch in the mechanical cable, especially if the cable is new, and as the pads wear you'll need to tweak that, but the Juintech design makes that adjustment a lot easier with just a knob to twist, needing no tools. Overall, I expect less maintenance, but not zero. Even fully-hydraulic systems with no cable to stretch should require pad-wear tweaking.
Kari,
Area13 appears to ship international. I would drop them an email to info@boltonebikes.com to see if they will ship to your location. I'm not sure if anyone else has come across a Hydraulic Caliper in Europe that can advise you better.
JimInPT .... thank you for your response. I will wind up ordering from Bolton as well. I appreciate your feedback. With regards to adjustments, I realize that adjustments will have to be made over time and at the beginning with cable stretch that all makes sense. You bring up excellent points that making adjustments on the Juintech calipers are made simply without tools. In the end, that sounds like it is going to be a better experience in the end. Again thank you for your input.
Here is a good video showing how easy it is to do this upgrade yourself --> https://youtu.be/4Xa0zp37eXc (https://youtu.be/4Xa0zp37eXc)
Quote from: rsghowellnj on April 05, 2022, 09:59:41 AM
Kari,
Area13 appears to ship international. I would drop them an email to info@boltonebikes.com to see if they will ship to your location. I'm not sure if anyone else has come across a Hydraulic Caliper in Europe that can advise you better.
It's just really expensive with delivery fees, customs fees and taxes.
I got the hydraulic brakes from big game bikes, they're great, they have a motor cut off which for me was a deal breaker and shipping to canada is included!!
Highly recommend.
Quote from: Omidia Ramin on April 07, 2022, 01:51:54 AM
I got the hydraulic brakes from big game bikes, they're great, they have a motor cut off which for me was a deal breaker and shipping to canada is included!!
Highly recommend.
I also placed an order there yesterday. Additional charges were lower than I recalled.
If you like excellent brakes I would suggest Magura MT5E. Pair them with big quality rotors and you have awesome braking power and modulation.
Sharing my experience. I am planning on putting in some V Brake Adapters that increase the cable pull length relative to lever pull - they are sometimes referred to as "Travel Agents"
https://amzn.to/3vGV5Jj
With this device - I don't have to adjust the cables often to compensate for wear and there is more clearance for the disc brake rotors. And I feel like I don't need to use hydraulic brakes. I don't do anything so technical that absolute precise brake control is needed.
I have experience with them on my touring nonelectric bike and it works well adapting my racing brake levers to V brakes.
It helps that my whole life I have a stronger than average grip.
I ordered the Juintech M1 hydraulic calipers from Area13 Ebikes and Jeff was kind enough to ship out that same day!
I installed my Juintech brakes this week. Maybe it's because I kept the Tectro brakes finely adjusted, but the Juintech brakes did not give me any more braking power. I contacted Area 13 about the issue, but they have not responded.
Why should it give more stopping-power?
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Quote from: Altema on April 13, 2022, 01:07:17 PMI installed my Juintech brakes this week. Maybe it's because I kept the Tectro brakes finely adjusted, but the Juintech brakes did not give me any more braking power. I contacted Area 13 about the issue, but they have not responded.
I've seen the same conclusion in more than one review of hybrid-hydraulic upgrades from all-mechanical, including Citizen Cycle doing it on his Rad Rover using the same Juintech calipers. Not sure, but I think even Kyle from Area 13 mentioned this in his video of the kit and how to install it.
I think the reason is simply the amount of force that can be delivered to the caliper using a mechanical grip/cable vs. all-hydraulic where mechanical advantage can be designed into the lever mechanism's piston on the handlebar to put significant pressure into the line. I used to do a bit of work with hydraulics and there is simply no other way to apply as much power in such a small space; it's amazing technology, as can be seen on any run-of-the-mill bulldozer. Not just hydraulic-piston cylinders either; I've worked with hydraulic motors far smaller than electric motors rated at similar horsepower - if you need power in a small space, it's the way to go, at the cost of a potentially-messier and more-expensive system.
Anyway, I haven't installed mine on my MiniST2 yet, but I'm not expecting a dramatic improvement either. What I'm hoping to find is much less need for adjustments, easier adjustment using that thumbscrew on the calipers and perhaps less chance of squeaking and other pad/rotor issues since the pads on the hydraulic caliber close in from both sides at once vs. the mechanical mechanism moving only one pad, thereby distorting the rotor just a tiny bit under braking.
So, no need to panic, but it'll be interesting to hear what Area 13 might say.
The Juintech M1 hydraulic calipers worked PERFECT!
Quote from: rsghowellnj on April 05, 2022, 08:00:16 AMWow the The Juintech M1 hydraulic calipers seems like a really easy upgrade to do myself. Has anyone been successful with this upgrade on a RAD bike that they could share their experience and how well they work?
I finally got mine installed today on the MiniST2 that's a little over a year old now. The Bolton kit fits it just fine and it seems to grab firmly but I haven't road-tested yet due to wet weather. But like many things, installation wasn't quite as simple as the Bolton installation vid shows, at least for a first-time brake upgrader. Here's some notes for anybody interested:
- I think Rad used the same mechanical disc calipers across their model line until the new ones with full-hydraulic systems, so these should fit them all. Mine (received a couple weeks ago) were branded with the current Area 13 logo and it looks fine. Aside from a cutting / crimping tool (I used ViceGrips for the latter function), you'll only need a 5mm hex wrench and maybe some pliers to maneuver and adjust the cable.
- On the MiniST2, I reused the stock Rad spacer between the caliper and the frame; the two new spacers from Bolton weren't used and a Rad factory spacer was only on the front; on the rear the caliper bolts directly to the frame. I also reused the stock bolts and didn't need any of the ones included by Bolton. Based on this, I think the same would apply to all Rad models - just reuse the bolts and any spacers that are in place now.
- Before disassembling anything, memorize the existing hardware, take photos or notes to remember what's there and where it all goes back.
- When disassembling, pay attention to front spacer orientation (it's marked) and the bolts that hold the calipers in place on the frame, including the two washers on either side of the caliper.
- The bolts had blue medium-strength loctite on them; I put new drops on the ends of the bolts when reinstalling, just to be sure.
- There is also a very tiny little o-ring on the bolts at the bottom of the stack when the caliper/bolt assembly is removed from the frame; this keeps the washers from falling off during reinstallation, so remove it carefully and DON'T lose it, or reassembly will be a pain as washers try to fall off the bolt and roll away before the bolt threads engage the frame.
- On the rear caliper, the rearmost bolt is a BEAR to remove and reinstall due to interference from the MiniST2's frame near the brake rotor; you'll need a 6-8" long 5mm hex wrench to loosen and tighten it. The rear front bolt (and both bolts on the front caliper) is easy; I don't own any 1/4" drive ratchets or extension that would fit with the rear bolt in place - too tight. So be prepared to loosen/tighten that rear bolt 1/4 to 1/2 turn at a time with a plain ol' skinny hex wrench, and it's a lot of turns due to being a fine-thread bolt. Bring patience and watch your knuckles, but it's doable.
It took me about an hour in total, way more than the 10 minutes Cheerful Kyle mentions in his vid using a Rover, to remove, replace and adjust everything but it's not difficult if you're comfortable with basic hand tools and once finished it looks good and so far seems just fine, although a road test awaits drier weather. At this point, I think it's a decent upgrade if you want better brakes on a Rad bike.
UPDATE Apr 22nd
Just took her out for a few miles shakedown ride to test the new brakes, and I love 'em. They work fine, are completely silent at both ends and they do provide a bit more stopping power, a noticeable amount, with just two-finger pressure on both. Previously, I needed three fingers pulling on the rear brake for a strong stop. As I recall, Altema reported not noticing much difference, but on my setup it's improved in both stopping power and grip strength applied.
I only needed to adjust the rear caliper a little bit for earlier engagement and more stopping power - easy to do with the adjustment knob on the caliper - a couple turns did the trick.
So far, so good and definitely recommended.
Quote from: Altema on April 13, 2022, 01:07:17 PM
I installed my Juintech brakes this week. Maybe it's because I kept the Tectro brakes finely adjusted, but the Juintech brakes did not give me any more braking power. I contacted Area 13 about the issue, but they have not responded.
Altema, see my post just above this one; my new Juintechs from Bolton seem to have noticeably improved my stopping power on a MiniST2, but the rear brake was a little weak until I tightened the adjustment screw on the caliper about 2 turns to engage the brakes up on the grip a bit sooner. That really improved the stopping power, so perhaps you might give that a try before removing them if you haven't already.
Front brake stopped like a brick wall right off the bat; I think I'd set the cable in the clamp mechanism just right and got lucky with that one. It's only been a couple miles but so far I like 'em.
Quote from: JimInPT on April 22, 2022, 02:08:05 PM
Quote from: Altema on April 13, 2022, 01:07:17 PM
I installed my Juintech brakes this week. Maybe it's because I kept the Tectro brakes finely adjusted, but the Juintech brakes did not give me any more braking power. I contacted Area 13 about the issue, but they have not responded.
Altema, see my post just above this one; my new Juintechs from Bolton seem to have noticeably improved my stopping power on a MiniST2, but the rear brake was a little weak until I tightened the adjustment screw on the caliper about 2 turns to engage the brakes up on the grip a bit sooner. That really improved the stopping power, so perhaps you might give that a try before removing them if you haven't already.
Front brake stopped like a brick wall right off the bat; I think I'd set the cable in the clamp mechanism just right and got lucky with that one. It's only been a couple miles but so far I like 'em.
I may try that. I contacted Bolton and they said they would do an exchange for their full hydraulic system, so that offer is on the table. Thanks for the info!
Quote from: Altema on April 22, 2022, 08:27:40 PMI may try that. I contacted Bolton and they said they would do an exchange for their full hydraulic system, so that offer is on the table. Thanks for the info!
I saw that Bolton has a full-hydraulic system with motor cutout switch etc, but in the event I ever want/need to fold my MiniST2, I don't think running a hydraulic line inside the frame would be a good idea.
That being said, have you seen the new Lectric bike? Similar in concept to their previous small folders, it has mid-drive, two batteries, front suspension, beefy rear rack and hydraulic brakes (with all lines including electric run outside the frame) and it's also a folder. Still only 500w nominal, but with two 10Ah batteries in parallel it'll have great range. $1799 pre-order intro price seems pretty good unless the components are junk - might give the Rad product managers a few sleepless nights if it's a good bike.
Ryan just uploaded a YT vid on it.
Quote from: rsghowellnj on April 01, 2022, 10:23:16 AM
I'm wondering if it is possible to upgrade the mechanical disc brakes on the Rad Expand 5 to hydraulic disk breaks? If so, has anyone had any success?
Yes - You can use a set of 4 piston Avid Code mtn bike brakes and 203MM rotors front and back - with some basic ish mods....These are WAY better than the Hydraulic cable pull (Jusi or whatever they are called) Amazon brakes. Get a long rear cable off Amazon and then bleed. 203MM SRAM rotors are on Ebay and Amazon too. Now this tank stops on a dime....
Quote from: Altema on April 02, 2022, 05:08:03 PM
Cable-pull hydraulic calipers can be a good way to upgrade. Avoid the Catazer calipers on Amazon. I'm still recovering from injuries due to them. The Juintech brakes look good, and I may order a set to try them out. Bolton (now renamed to Area 13) carries full hydraulic brakes for Rad bikes.
I agree! I have two identical RAD Mini 2018 folding ebikes, both with original mechanical brake calipers. To be sure, the mechanical brakes are functional *when properly adjusted*. The proper adjustment is the issue. The mechanical brakes require frequent adjustment, and for many this adjustment is beyond their expertise. The mechanical brakes require an adjustment to the stationary brake pad holder in the back of the caliper, so that the traveling brake pad won't have to move so far (and won't have to bend the disc as much). I consider myself pretty skilled at bike maintenance and adjust frequently, as needed with the mechanical brakes. With almost 5,000mi on the two bikes, I've replaced all pads once, and noticed a significant (2mm) difference in brakes pad wear from one side to the other. The mechanical brake calipers do not provide smooth pressure application, and cause excessive disc wear.
So...I tried two different hybrid-hydraulic caliper upgrades, one from Bolton ebikes/Area 13 ($119), and one from Amazon/Catazer (https://amzn.to/3Pc3i1q) ($42).
They are functionally similar, but very different.
Price: Unit13 Juintech M1 hydraulic calipers $119 ($149 at time of writing this review) for front and back calipers.
Catazer hydraulic MTB Road HTB-100 $42
Wow - with such a big price difference, I wondered what was different.
Looks: Advantage Catazer. They have a spiffy paint job that is reminiscent of upgraded brake sets on a Porsche or other high end performance car.
Weight: The Unit13 Juintech M1 calipers weigh about 5oz. The Catazer weighs 5.9oz. They have clearly different castings, pistons, and cable adjustment pieces. They are NOT the same calipers.
Performance: Both Catazer and Unit13 brakes improve the braking smoothness by providing a more even pressure distribution to both sides of the brake pads. The smoothness in braking is noticeable over the old mechanical brakes. PLUS, no bending of the disc when applying the brakes, even after many miles. The 3rd adjustment to the back of the mechanical calipers is not needed at all. Both brake calipers apply pressure to both sides of the pads, and self-adjust to the disc.
Braking Force: Unit13 brake calipers are significantly better here. The Catazer brake calipers require 50-75% (my estimate, not measured with a scale) more brake handle pressure to lockup the rear wheel. I have strong enough hands and I could use either effectively. However, my child and girlfriend both struggled to get full braking power from the Catazer calipers.
Fitup: Both Unit13 and Catazer brake calipers bolted on to my 2018 RAD Mini folding bikes easily by using the OEM hardware for the mechanical brake calipers. The manufacturer-provided spacers were not needed. The whole project can be done in 20-30min. However, the Catazer caliper has a different angle to the frame, and causes excess friction to the cable at the bend made by the angle of the mount on the rear wheel. (See pic). The brake handle will still snap back, but slower and you can feel it is rubbing on something when you work the brake handle.
My Conclusion: If you want the best brakes, go with Unit13. Better alignment with the brake cable and less brake pressure is required to lockup the wheel. If you have strong hands and an eye for price-performance, the Catazer functions okay, though I expect you would need a new rear brake cable housing in a year or two from the friction.