I plan to buy a 1/4 inch torque wrench to assemble my bikes properly, although I am tempted to put it together with just normal allen wrenches.
Curious how many people assembled their bike just using regular allen wrenches?
Depends on your experience level. If you've read the Rad torque chart and seen that none of the recommended values are significantly different from normal bicycle standard practices, and you have experience in applying those torques with standard hex keys, then you PROBABLY don't need to use a torque wrench (but it certainly wouldn't hurt anything, as long as it's accurate).
On the other hand, if you if you don't have that much experience, there are a couple of ways to get some:
1) Trial and error. You MIGHT eventually learn how to keep from stripping out threads and having parts fall off your bike (could take years and multiple bikes though).
2) Use a torque wrench (the preferred method of learning what specified torque values feel like).
I've found that some Rad bolt holes are a little crappy (rack & fender mounts in particular), often clogged with paint and some apparently had partial or dinged threads. If a bolt feels like it's going to exceed the recommended fully tightened torque value while your just running it down, it's better to chase the threads with a tap instead of just wrenching it in all the way. A torque wrench is an invaluable aid in learning stuff like this.
I used a regular set of Allen keys and spanners. The bolts under the centre console are challenging to remove, but the rest of the bike went together fairly easily.
I did assemble my bike with a torque wrench. I bought it for about $70 on amazon and I've used it many times since. However it is not large enough for the rear wheel nuts.
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
I bought and used a torque wrench. A Venzo bicycle specific one. But I like tools and only had a bigger wrench. I've got plenty of bike mechanic experience but talked myself into it due to greater forces on an ebike.
Before my Radwagon 4 arrived, I got a 1/4" or 6.35 mm torque set. A mid-priced one from Amazon. It really helped, and I'll use it for any repairs, or adjustments I need to work on. I have the PDF of the Manual on My phone or Google Drive, so I can reach it anywhere. Today it's a derailer adjustment. EOM settings were a bit hokey. Little things are to be expected. I called support (that's the best way to get help) and he'd sent me some specs and a few how-to documents. Very nice folks to work with. Good luck to all, JLH
Thanks to all, I appreciate the feedback. I bought a torque wrench, might as well do it right.
Now for some controversy.
Should you torque a dry bolt, greased/anti-seize compound, or blue loctite?
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
Torque on a bolt can depend on many things from thread condition, lubrication and head contact surface area.
I previously worked on many engines from Solar turbines, CAT to Detroit Diesel engines. True torque or bolt preload is done by snugging the bolt up till it just tightens then turning the bolt a certain amount in degrees or turns to properly tighten or preload the bolt base on the thread pitch. All this said it is important not over tighten the bolts. I always use "Never Seize" on bolt threads to they will open after a period of time and conditions like rain, snow, salt on roads etc. Even Stainless steel bolts seize.
This is Techie talk!
Use a torque wrench or commonsense you can retighten or torque after a period of riding just to be sure.
My torque wrenches actually were calibrated in a lab and certified annually!
For years those in the company would tease me saying I did not support the industry I worked in (oil exploration) I road my bike to work (office and workshop) and heated my house with wood!
Quote from: Veggyhed on May 05, 2021, 08:46:48 AM
I did assemble my bike with a torque wrench. I bought it for about $70 on amazon and I've used it many times since. However it is not large enough for the rear wheel nuts.
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
for the rear wheel nuts I bought a 3/8" torque wrench at Harbor Freight for $20.
Since this was the first time I have put a bike together and I was doing 4 of them I did buy one, it was not expensive and it worked great.
Here is the one I bought -
PRO BIKE TOOL 1/4 Inch Drive Click Torque Wrench Set – 2 to 20 Nm – Bicycle Maintenance Kit for Road & Mountain Bikes - Includes Allen & Torx Sockets, Extension Bar & Storage Box
by Pro Bike Tool
Learn more: https://amzn.to/3BMUiZK
Quote from: Airborne_Chemdog on January 24, 2022, 06:11:19 AM
Since this was the first time I have put a bike together and I was doing 4 of them I did buy one, it was not expensive and it worked great.
Here is the one I bought - PRO BIKE TOOL 1/4 Inch Drive Click Torque Wrench Set
I bought one of those sets a few months back; they are very high-quality for the price and beautifully finished. Not cheap, but if you want a good low-range torque wrench set at a reasonable price, I haven't seen better.
Yes, I did, a nice metric set from Amazon. Along with a chain break, extra slip links, some rounded end hex wrenches. A Pro Bike Tool set also.
I just used the tools supplied - meaning I did not use a torque wrench. I have been a bike owner for decades and commuted for more than 5 years on a bike and always fixed my own bikes.
Rad did not say you need to have a torque wrench to assemble the bike. It is of course nice to have a torque wrench and I am not arguing against one. But I did not want to spend the money.
I bought a torque wrench for my RadCity 5. I've had a mountain bike for over 20 years for which I never used a torque wrench, but then again that thing was built like a tank. I think Rad's instructional videos and guides are HIGHLY "liability" sensitive. I think it is perfectly possible to assemble the bike (which comes mostly assembled anyway) without a torque wrench and be perfectly safe. But I don't know this bike and this manufacturer.
For one, their quality control appears to be a bit lacking. When I received the bike, I found that one of the fender mount brackets (which need two drilled holes on each) had only one hole drilled on it rather than two! The other one was just fine. How does THAT happen??? Fortunately, I live in Seattle, and I could just hop on over to the Seattle store and they got me a non-defective one, and helped me to take out a couple of hex bolts (on the head tube for the front rack) that I foolishly stripped. They were perfectly nice. But I suspect that the manufacturing and shipping part of their company lacks adequate quality control, given the fact that the back fender comes mounted on the wrong (upper as opposed to the lower) holes on the fender as it is supposed to be, and this is a systemic problem, not just mine... I want to be on the safe side and follow their instructions to the letter in case something goes sideways.
And also, the ebike's target consumers appear to be older folks some of whom had little experience riding or maintaining a regular bike. Rad probably wants to make sure that they provide as accurate and safe instructions to them as possible in case something goes wrong so that they can say, "hey, we did everything we could to provide a safe instruction."
Even though I feel fairly comfortable maintaining a regular bike, I felt that this whole ebike thing is a qualitatively different experience, and I wanted to do it right. And torque wrenches are a pretty cool thing to own. :)
Same. For something like this, I trust feel, decades of experience, and periodically checking the screws -- which you should do anyway. If it were a cylinder head, different story.
Quote from: Eric7 on February 01, 2022, 08:03:37 PM
I just used the tools supplied - meaning I did not use a torque wrench. I have been a bike owner for decades and commuted for more than 5 years on a bike and always fixed my own bikes.
Rad did not say you need to have a torque wrench to assemble the bike. It is of course nice to have a torque wrench and I am not arguing against one. But I did not want to spend the money.
There were a lot of opinions and comments that I certainly agreed with. I love tools and when watching all the "how to" videos while saving up for and waiting for delivery I purchased a few tools and this was one I just felt like I needed. I work in mfg. and in assembly making 3 phase tankless hot water heaters (not so much now, mostly sales and Ops now), I do welding, drilling wire making, crimping, solder dipping, we use large industrial metal breaks for our aluminum mounting plates, cut foam with hot wires tool etc. so I have A LOT of mechanical experience but not so much with this and I felt like I needed one to get the feel for NM. I still use it regularly as even though now I have a much better feel for how tight I need to make things.
Quote from: rpwbike on May 03, 2021, 06:34:10 PM
I plan to buy a 1/4 inch torque wrench to assemble my bikes properly, although I am tempted to put it together with just normal allen wrenches.
Curious how many people assembled their bike just using regular allen wrenches?
Sixteen months ago, I bought this:
https://amzn.to/3NZOl0F
My immediate need was to break loose 6mm allenhead screws in an engine. I put 6mm box wrench on the allen wrench for more torque, but the allen wrench twisted so badly that I was afraid I'd strip the screw head. The 6mm bit in this set did it with ease.
When I work on my bike, I set up a table, put this Geardrive kit on it, and open it. It will handle allen heads down to 4mm, and it's vastly superior.
A specially made aluminum screw with a 5mm allen head held the chain tensioner on my Radrunner. An aluminum screw? What were they thinking! Once when I wanted to unscrew it, I used the allen wrench from the Radpower kit unstead of fetching my Geardrive kit. The Radrunner guard kept the wrench slightly out of alignment, but I didn't realize it until I'd stripped the soft head. With the Gearbox kit, I would have known by feel that it was misaligned. I had to order a specially made replacement screw from Radpower. It was a big bill for a little screw.
I'd been torquing by feel for decades before I had access to a torque wrench. Sometimes I'd tighten by feel and check with a torque wrench. I'd normally be pretty close. Threaded connections are designed with elasticity. Taking up the elasticity creates a preload, which can keep the connector from vibrating loose and may increase resistance to breaking. As you take up the intended elasticity, resistance will increase gradually. When it starts to increase sharply, you're done. Going too far could strip the threads or permanently deform the fastener so that it no longer has the proper elasticity.
Threads in materials softer than steel take less torque, but the principle is the same. I can't feel the proper point with an allen wrench because it's springy. The Geardrive kit lets me torque a fastener with confidence because it's rigid. The leverage of the ratchet drive helps, too. It's easier to feel changes in resistance if you aren't turning hard.
(I fetch my especially rigid 1/2" breaker bar, 24" long, to torque lug nuts. It's my best wrench for feeling what I'm doing at 60 or 100 foot pounds or even the smaller torque used on the back axle of my Radrunner.)
By themselves, the bits are handy like little screwdrivers. The 6" extension provides the benefit of a long screwdriver, including reaching through the spokes to adjust a brake.
Amazon doesn't currently have this item. Other brands are probably as good.
I prefer Flex Shot to Lock Tite. The can is bigger so it's easier to spot, and I use it for so many things that I won't forget where it is. The rubbery coating on the threads will keep vibration from rotating a connector. If you unscrew a treated connection, rubber will probably remain in the threads, so you probably won't have to get the can before you screw it back together.
Quote from: Airborne_Chemdog on January 24, 2022, 06:11:19 AM
Here is the one I bought -
PRO BIKE TOOL 1/4 Inch Drive Click Torque Wrench Set – 2 to 20 Nm – Bicycle Maintenance Kit for Road & Mountain Bikes - Includes Allen & Torx Sockets, Extension Bar & Storage Box
by Pro Bike Tool
Learn more: https://amzn.to/3BMUiZK
I strongly endorse this set. I purchased it for use with my RR+ in mid-2020, and it's served me very well since then. It's a little awkward for adjusting the inner brake pad (the included Rad-specific tool sometimes works better for this), but it does the trick when the extender is used, and it's been great for every other use.
One thing I was happy to find is that this set made it a lot easier to remove the notorious Loctite-enforced bottle cage bolts on the RR+ frame. The hex wrenches included with the bike just stripped the bolt head on one (my lbs had to drill it out), but the rest came out with relatively little effort when I switched to this torque wrench.
Quote from: pnwetc on June 03, 2022, 11:54:45 AMOne thing I was happy to find is that this set made it a lot easier to remove the notorious Loctite-enforced bottle cage bolts on the RR+ frame. The hex wrenches included with the bike just stripped the bolt head on one (my lbs had to drill it out), but the rest came out with relatively little effort when I switched to this torque wrench.
I have the same set; pretty great for the price, eh? One thing to be aware of, as I recall, in general torque wrenches aren't recommended for loosening bolts, just tightening them. Use regular ratchets or wrenches for removing bolts. I use the various sizes included with that kit with my standard 1/4" drive ratchet all the time.
I believe a torque wrench will work for removal without breaking if it's an urgent need, but I think repeated "backwards" use can mess up the internal mechanism that sets the calibrated torque value.
This is all from distant memory; I'm sure a competent and regular mechanic can advise and correct me if I've had brain bubbles on the topic.
Quote from: JimInPT on June 04, 2022, 05:35:15 PM
One thing to be aware of, as I recall, in general torque wrenches aren't recommended for loosening bolts, just tightening them. Use regular ratchets or wrenches for removing bolts. I use the various sizes included with that kit with my standard 1/4" drive ratchet all the time.
I believe a torque wrench will work for removal without breaking if it's an urgent need, but I think repeated "backwards" use can mess up the internal mechanism that sets the calibrated torque value.
I've heard this as well, and I think it is good advice. (EDIT: Indeed, the instructions (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0549/6422/4097/files/Palos-20200701-TWS220-Multi-Language-Manual-A3.pdf?v=1643695265) advise not to use the torque wrench as a regular wrench.) I probably wouldn't have tried this set for that purpose either, if I weren't already frustrated in the moment after having stripped the first bolt with a regular wrench! But it does reinforce that a quality tool or tool set will beat the cheapo tools from Rad any day.
As stated earlier you should not use a torque wrench during disassembly, it will affect the accuracy of the wrench.
Yup, infuriating. I even had to wait for a crowfoot to do the pedals. But the pedals surprised me, it took way more torque than I had initially thought a pretty good guess.
Old threadI know.
I got the torque wrench on Amazon and did it right.
As a former mfg engineer I?ve seen countless threads buggered by over-torquing, particularly in aluminum. Stainless can gall aluminum so the recommendation to chase threads isn?t a bad one although mine were pretty clean.
Thanks above for the crows foot comment. The pedals are the one thing I haven?t torqued because I forgot to order one!