Day One - Rad Rover 6 Plus Step-thru's

[jimk1963]

Imperial Beach store (San Diego) had their "grand opening" today, even though they've been open for a month or more. Received an email yesterday that they had RR 6+ Step-thru's in stock, huh? After failing to get clarity from Tech Support or the actual store (no one answers the phone), drove down this morning and sure enough, they had both assembled and boxed bikes ready to go. Purchased 2 charcoal bikes and have had them for a few hours now. First impressions:

1) Appears RPB disabled the hidden menu speed option (>20 MPH). Tried Headlight + Down button, HL + Up button, Down + Up button, Pwr + Down/Up, Pwr+HL, none opened any hidden menu. Crap. So either Rad did lock down the power or there's yet another hidden menu somewhere, just waiting for someone to figure it out and post it.

2) I'm 220 lbs, and took the bike on a 7 mile ride with 7% hills. Very disappointed in the power. With throttle only, slows down to 5 MPH, barely enough to keep from tipping over. The new motor is supposed to "kill it" up the hills, I have no idea what they're talking about. This thing is a dog. We were just on vacation in Hawaii, where we rented BlackRock e-bikes for a day. Those bikes took us up similar hills, with a lot more wind in our faces, much faster than this RR 6 Plus.

3) Watching reviews of this bike, the reviewers are climbing 10%+ grade hills at 8-12 MPH. Granted, those guys are skinny compared to my 220lb frame, but still... I can't help but wonder if these "early" bikes we just bought have controllers that aren't fully tuned yet.

4) Other than than the terrible power, everything else about the bikes is really nice. Disc brakes have great stopping power, very comfy ride, a little noisy with the fat tires but I'll go for more quiet ones after we wear these out.

Next, plan to contact the showroom and discuss, and/or tech support by phone. Only concern with TS is like I said, they don't even know the bikes are being sold yet so it may be hard to get anything other than the party line out of them. If someone can't address the power issue, I'll likely return at least one of these. My wife is half my size and less of a daredevil so the bike may be just fine for her.

[JimInPT]

Thanks so much for your impressions - nice surprise to see you've got a couple.   Did you have a Rad or other e-bike previously?

I noticed that Rad made no effort to increase the motor power claim, battery capacity or battery voltage, so the only thing they could do is what they've claimed to get better hill-climbing - mess with the motor's internal planetary gear ratio.  I'm surprised you don't see any benefit from that.

My flaky knees begged me for a step-thru and since I'm 5'7" and inseam-challenged I went with the MiniST2 - I think even the Rover step-thru frame would be too much hassle for me.  I weigh a little more than you and the Mini still scoots up even the tallest hills in my hilly town (with some pedal assist on a few of them, of course, but not a lot unless I feel like it), due to the same motor and power as the Rovers, but spinning much smaller 20" wheels, so it's sort of "geared down" compared to a Rover.  I normally use minimal pedal assist and do as much as I can, to get exercise benefit from the bike, but have tested hill-climbing with little or no pedaling to see how well she does.  It's actually a much better hill-climber for my weight than I expected it would be when I ordered it in March.

I really like this bike and if you consider returning your RR6, would definitely recommend looking at the Mini line, which is on sale until Aug 31st for $200 (maybe $250 if they'll take the additional $50 code) off list price, making it a pretty sweet deal at $1,249 or so.  My only regret about mine is that I didn't get a deal like that!

If you pop for one by chance, perhaps you could mosey on over to one of Ryan's discount-code pages to see what you can find and use his purchase links to get him a bit of benefit at no cost to you.

Thanks for the info - please keep 'em coming!  I'm always interested in other models even though I'm completely content with my MiniST.

[Mori55]

Well this sucks. I ordered one and I have some accessories and wonder now if I should cancel my order and try to see the accessories. I'm disappointed now.

[Mori55]

Did you pedal at all going up hill ? Or just use throttle ?

[RadJohn]

....so the only thing they could do is what they've claimed to get better hill-climbing - mess with the motor's internal planetary gear ratio.

They're still advertising the same "5:1 planetary gear reduction" as they did on the Rover 5 (and Mini 2, Mini 4 and others), also the same 42 tooth chainring and 11-34 Freewheel as used on the Rover 5. Hard to tell at this point if they're delivering what they're advertising component wise, but it sounds like they may not be doing so performance wise. They seem to have dropped the initial published torque spec for the Rover 6 from their website, the one that was less than than the old 80 Nm one for the Rover 5s, Minis & others. The website (particularly the Rover 6 page) seems to be "evolving".

Although Minis can outclimb Rovers on motor power alone (with equal rider/load weight) because of their smaller wheels, just remember they do have a 48 tooth chainring to reduce cadence at their lawful 20 MPH top speed (so they won't "spin out"), which means the Mini loses some of that apparent advantage and both bike styles can still require a significant amount of "rider assist"/pedaling on really steep hills (the Mini just not so much).

[jimk1963]

Mori, I tested both throttle-only and pedal assist. My only comparison is a BlackRock e-bike rented in Maui as described earlier. Have ridden my son's Rad City but only in flattish areas soon real hill climbing experience. With the BlackRocks, even if we tried throttle-only to test the power, those bikes climbed significantly better than this RR 6+.

I took it out for another spin today, after a minor mod to the front disc brakes which were rubbing on the inside. On moderate hills, say 5-7%, I'm pedaling in 2nd gear at PA5 and hitting about 8 MPH or so with the motor pegged at 750W. If I step up to 3rd gear, the PA is already maxed out so it becomes a traditional workout to climb.

In speaking with my son, who's been riding e-bikes for 2+ yrs, he thinks what I'm reporting is about "normal" for Rad bikes (he has two), but not encouraged with the hill climbing observations. Once more experienced riders begin to chime in, perhaps they can identify subtleties I'm missing. All I know is I've ridden a few e-bikes, this one feels meh with regards to uphill power.

[Mori55]

That's not what wanted to hear. I can understand pedaling. But I don't want to bust my balls going up a hill. What's the point of spending all this money.
   I'm seriously thinking of canceling my order.
I really liked the looks of it.

[cTheseIceCreams]

I have one also. Not too impressed with it. There has to be a way to get into a secret menu.

[Mori55]

How's it compare to other stock Rovers ?

[Mori55]

Thanks so much for your impressions - nice surprise to see you've got a couple.   Did you have a Rad or other e-bike previously?

I noticed that Rad made no effort to increase the motor power claim, battery capacity or battery voltage, so the only thing they could do is what they've claimed to get better hill-climbing - mess with the motor's internal planetary gear ratio.  I'm surprised you don't see any benefit from that.

My flaky knees begged me for a step-thru and since I'm 5'7" and inseam-challenged I went with the MiniST2 - I think even the Rover step-thru frame would be too much hassle for me.  I weigh a little more than you and the Mini still scoots up even the tallest hills in my hilly town (with some pedal assist on a few of them, of course, but not a lot unless I feel like it), due to the same motor and power as the Rovers, but spinning much smaller 20" wheels, so it's sort of "geared down" compared to a Rover.  I normally use minimal pedal assist and do as much as I can, to get exercise benefit from the bike, but have tested hill-climbing with little or no pedaling to see how well she does.  It's actually a much better hill-climber for my weight than I expected it would be when I ordered it in March.

I really like this bike and if you consider returning your RR6, would definitely recommend looking at the Mini line, which is on sale until Aug 31st for $200 (maybe $250 if they'll take the additional $50 code) off list price, making it a pretty sweet deal at $1,249 or so.  My only regret about mine is that I didn't get a deal like that!

If you pop for one by chance, perhaps you could mosey on over to one of Ryan's discount-code pages to see what you can find and use his purchase links to get him a bit of benefit at no cost to you.

Thanks for the info - please keep 'em coming!  I'm always interested in other models even though I'm completely content with my MiniST.

let us know what the tech says , maybe it needs a update or something.

[Mori55]

Gonna leave us hanging ?

[jimk1963]

Haven't spoken with tech support yet, life gets in the way. When I have something I'll share it here.

[Mori55]

Any news yet ?

[jimk1963]

Son John, a two-year, two Rad bike owner, came down for a visit and we took out the two RR6+'s. Wanted the opinion of someone more experienced with these bikes to opine on power. His conclusion: power is substantial, at least as good and seemingly better than his bikes (Rad Wagon, Rad City), as well as other e-bikes he's ridden. He noted that (a) the RR is very heavy (74 lbs) and (b) the 4" fat tires generate a lot of friction. Considering those factors, the bike does very well up hills. He also noted how "smooth" the motor is and how enjoyable the overall ride is. I've also been riding for the past two weeks, amd have learned to better align my gearing with the uphill climbs and to be more patient with the motor in general. After a few 30-45 minute rides I'm much more satisfied now that I can take the bike anywhere. I am still disappointed in the lack of Class 3 conversion, as I'm finding that coming out of a steep downhill run the bike wants to pull back if I start pedaling while doing more than 20 MPH. Just a little higher would be so much better. Lastly, I spoke with Rad techs, no one would budge from the party line - no info on a hidden menu. "Look online for the information in forums."

[Mori55]

I'm glad your happy with it , I was worried at first since I have one on order.
   It would be nice if there is a hidden menu to up the speed a little.
   How was your battery life ?