Well Santa delivered two upgrade kits, one for my wife's RadWagon and one for mine.
https://boltonebikes.com/collections/motor-controllers-and-displays/products/radrover-upgrade-kit
We have the 2018 RadWagons. Wondering is anyone else has done the same upgrade and found the best settings for this setup. As you will note, the kit was originally for the RadRover and the RadWagon has a direct drive motor. I have not installed mine yet. The site and emails from Bolton Bikes say they know others have successfully used the upgrade on their RadWagons. So, before I install it I was hoping to save some time of someone has figured out the motor settings.....
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I just created an account at Bolton and found:
https://boltonebikes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360034971792
There's a bit more there, but here is the meat that of the settings comments.
Quote.... Note that some settings may need to be changed for proper operation. P1 is determined by the number of magnets or poles in the motor as well as the gear reduction. As the RadWagon is a direct drive motor, use the number 46 for P1. P2 may also require a change for a correct speed reading.
Some customers have reported a "noise" when apply full power of C5 = 10. Once again, we have not tested this setup so use caution, or turn the power down slightly to avoid overstressing the stock motor. ...
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I don't have experience with the Bolton upgrade kits for Rad Power Bikes but I'm excited to hear your thoughts since I have a Wagon as well. Please keep sharing updates. For those members who might not know about this kit it basically provides more amps to the motor for better performance.
Quote from: Ryan on January 01, 2020, 12:04:53 PM
I don't have experience with the Bolton upgrade kits for Rad Power Bikes but I'm excited to hear your thoughts since I have a Wagon as well. Please keep sharing updates. For those members who might not know about this kit it basically provides more amps to the motor for better performance.
Will do... I have not yet installed the upgrade. Honey Do list has priority. Hope to get to it soon.
1/2 - Still not installed... warmer weather heading our way... good reason to get it installed.
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By better performance does this mean faster? Quicker pick up? Or will make your battery last longer? It just hit cold temps here and I can tell the battery goes down much quicker than in the summer.
Quote from: Ryan on January 01, 2020, 12:04:53 PM
I don't have experience with the Bolton upgrade kits for Rad Power Bikes but I'm excited to hear your thoughts since I have a Wagon as well. Please keep sharing updates. For those members who might not know about this kit it basically provides more amps to the motor for better performance.
My understanding is that it's a performance boost. Better response and power on start and power response. Thus I am expecting to have a much better performing and faster ebike. With that, there is no free lunch so I am expecting less range from my battery as I'll be asking more from it.
Now that said, even the top end speed might improve. But as I've been reading, i need to be careful not to ask too much from the motor as I could damage it or it could start making noise. So that said, I'll be working with the settings so that I get what I want and nothing more less I damage the motor. I believe there is one in particular setting I need to slowly increase up to where I'm happy vs simply setting it to max.
"Remember, with great power comes great responsibility." This upgrade opens up a great amount of power with its various settings we never could achieve with the standard display and controller. So one needs to be responsible in what settings they use less they damage their motor.
Now one exiting comment on the Bolton Bikes site said that they plan on working on a 1500 watt motor replacement offer as well... everything takes time though ...
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Cold is not a friend to any battery. Keep it inside between rides and on cold days. I'm spoiled in a warmer area. But I'm thinking I would make some kind of insulated cover for my battery and if that wasn't enough, see if I could use a warming device that is not too hot and can easily be recharged and last my ride.... I have no idea but brainstorming probably stupid ideas.... something like:
https://amzn.to/3m0Owgv
Or
https://amzn.to/3pPmTYV
Looks like they have diff shaped ones and it looks like they could get warmer that we might want touching the battery so insulating the battery from direct contact would be a wise idea...
Anyway, as I said, probably a dumb idea, but you get the idea... cold bad, battery needs to stay warm...
But heck, ya probably knew that already.
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Quote from: Rjbur007 on January 05, 2020, 09:30:18 PM
My understanding is that it's a performance boost. Better response and power on start and power response. Thus I am expecting to have a much better performing and faster ebike. With that, there is no free lunch so I am expecting less range from my battery as I'll be asking more from it.
Now that said, even the top end speed might improve. But as I've been reading, i need to be careful not to ask too much from the motor as I could damage it or it could start making noise. So that said, I'll be working with the settings so that I get what I want and nothing more less I damage the motor. I believe there is one in particular setting I need to slowly increase up to where I'm happy vs simply setting it to max.
"Remember, with great power comes great responsibility." This upgrade opens up a great amount of power with its various settings we never could achieve with the standard display and controller. So one needs to be responsible in what settings they use less they damage their motor.
Now one exiting comment on the Bolton Bikes site said that they plan on working on a 1500 watt motor replacement offer as well... everything takes time though ...
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It's really going to be interesting to see what is available in five years time. The nice thing is that the RadWagon frame is so functional so I could see just continuing to upgrade it over time instead of buying a new model. I can't imagine a 1500 watt motor, but it sounds like fun. In fact one of the reasons I bought a Wagon over building my own e-bike (which would have definitely been faster) is simply because of the frame. Putting a passenger on the back is a blast.
I'm curious to hear what you think of the Bolton upgrade. It's tempting but $200 is also a good chunk towards another Rad model 8). Now that I've been riding my Wagon in winter I'm really curious about the Rover.
I finally started the install on one of my two RadWagons.
CHALLENGE #1:
===========
Had to cut two screws from original controller to get it out. Felt like they were put in as self tapping because the resisted coming out for almost there complete length. I did not see any evidence of lock-tight being used. They are small Phillips head screws and you cannot get a decent screw driver into that area. They should have been Hex Allen head screws. I used a small 1/4" Ratchet and a socket I could place a screw driver head into. Two screws came out and two refused to move and the heads stripped. So I used my Oscillating Saw to cut the heads off and Vice Grips to finally twist the screws out once I had the controller in my hands.
CHALLENGE #2:
===========
Second challenge is that the new controller is wider and does not fit into the same location between the RadWagon frame tubes in that area. I have made a template of the area and plan on making a spacer block out of wood for now that I'll paint. Eventually I'll design a spacer and 3D Print one.
CHALLENGE #3:
===========
Next challenge is that the Pedal Assist Sensor cable coming from the sensor on bike is short and so is the one coming from the new controller. Thus I'll need an extension cable to make that connection. Looks like all the other cables are fine. I'm on the hunt for an extension cable now. I also sent Bolton Bikes an email. I think I found one on Amazon.
I'll takes pics and post them soon.
NEXT STEPS:
=========
1) Find and order PAS extension cables
2) Make the spacer block and secure new Control in place.
3) Take pictures
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Time for a few photos.
Here,s the original RAD controller in position:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200113/3742789d35539bc26a533e9d4f246fbf.jpg)
Here's the screws that need to be removed.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200113/23f49b003d60742129d081f5dced0d2d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200113/8d8c513e46e7a5ee4335da8077d1c592.jpg)
Controller Removed:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200113/1ea67da9edff93c5d4abb795b3f2147e.jpg)
Template I made by stretching Painters Tape layered across tubes and the another layer length wise. Then using a sharp long knife I could follow inside along tubes I ended up with:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200113/afd675596a5b8c6d80770482470e63f8.jpg)
New Controller laid in place for a fit check:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200113/4742039b99f9e779267f7a4fccdd1f6a.jpg)
I'll be needing an extension a cable for the PAS:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200113/b635605b9da5165e28cbfd657f292095.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200113/eeec13c4696b5eb4f48ffa3421a082c1.jpg)
Here's the a few views of the inside of the RAD Controller:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200113/18fa57efd8ea1549f5e3f478dbe50914.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200113/6b440f4084748be56ff2adea0da91bac.jpg)
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Here's the sticker I found on the bottom of the RAD Controller with the watts I added using Ohms Law:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200113/5359f20aa4e08956019ca962ebacf72c.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200113/903bedc7dae2c6994bc619f046789f7a.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200113/19a73ced2ee2a0844cd8b6f74ff47b03.jpg)
Looks like the nominal current is 9 amps, below 500 watts, but can be pushed up to above 800 watts. That explains why RAD wants us to keep it to about 500 max and only push it higher for short periods.
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Just ordered two PAS 3 Wire Extension Cables from Bolton Biles:
https://boltonebikes.com/collections/electrical-accessories/products/sondors-lcd-extension-cable?variant=12380729638935
Only really need probably 4-6 " so I'll have to coil up the extra.
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Really interesting...thanks for the detailed steps. So for the longevity of a stock bike everyone should attempt to keep watts around 500 most of the time. Curious if you've looked at all what the motor is capable of as far as pushing it. Will the controller push more than 750 watts to it?
Do you plan to keep the old controller for now? I have a warrantied rear wheel that eventually I was interested in piecing together a DIY setup (the only issue is that one screw securing the disc was stripped).
Quote from: Ryan on January 13, 2020, 12:05:43 PM
Really interesting...thanks for the detailed steps. So for the longevity of a stock bike everyone should attempt to keep watts around 500 most of the time. Curious if you've looked at all what the motor is capable of as far as pushing it. Will the controller push more than 750 watts to it?
There's two places where this is apparent, maybe four if you see the web page from the manufacture of the motor that shows it as a 500watt motor and watch a few of Bolton Bike videos where it seems that motors can be pushed sometimes beyond their rating.
The first hint of a power issue is in the Owners Manual page 19 where it states,
QuoteNotice: It is recommended that users pay close attention and ride within the following limitations to ensure the hub motor does not overheat or become damaged from excessive loading.
- Do not climb hills steeper than 15% in grade.
- Pedal to assist the motor when climbing hills and accelerating from a stop.
- Avoid sudden starts and stops.oWhen climbing hills reduce the power output when possible. This can be accomplished by pedaling with the bike while in pedal assist modes 1 or 2.
- Accelerate slowly.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0799/9645/files/2018RadWagonOwnersManualUSA_updated_9-3-19.pdf?8669
Also repeated on their site:
https://radpowerbikes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002190354-Riding-on-Hilly-Terrain
*** UPDATE *** THE ABOVE LINK IS NOW DEAD!!! I should have quoted what it said for prosperity. Now all I could find on their site is:
https://radpowerbikes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002193913
Why would you not keep it cranked to PAS 5 and full throttle?
I have... and yes the motor wattage on the display sure does climb to above 740 watts, but hell, its a 750 watt motor and Rad is selling it as a 750 watt eBike.... But I only do this for very short periods of time. I have never pushed it on a big long hill...
Guess what happens when you follow the directions and turn down your PAS to 1-3... ahhh you don't go above the magic 500 watts.
Here's is where Rad states the type of motor the RadWagon has:
https://radpowerbikes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000949274-What-kind-of-motor-does-the-RadWagon-use-
Now I know its possible that the manufacture has made a special version of the motor for RAD, however, it's also possible that the motor is actually their:
http://www.syimotor.com/productDe_5.html
And is rated at 350W/500W as shown on their site and when asked it it could handle 750watts they said sure it can...
Either way, the controller is not designed to push out the power needed to maintain above 500 watts. It can for short periods, but its "rated current" is 9A or 432 watts cruising.
The second source I cannot seem to find online. I'll have to search my emails. But I seems to remember their responding to one of my emails where I sent them info on a trail I was hoping to take my bike on that starts with a rather steep 2.5 mile long uphill. Their response was the same as stated above with the one addition to try and keep the power down to 500 watts or less on the climb.
So it's finally installed. Received the extension cables for the Pedal Assist Sensor so decided to start with my bike before tackling my wife's...
After thinking a little more about how to install the controller I decided it's probably not a good idea to install it on a block of wood as that would not maximize are flow and cooling. So I was thinking about standoffs and maybe a platform that I cut the center out of..... then I found the brackets below at work and tried these first and they seem to work.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200119/cbc23ffde33729b10ea20ca122a63d18.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200119/32be20ea74b5c63538114807a2314adb.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200119/0ae89cf5291157b865569b8f0a2b5475.jpg)
The controller sits nicely on top. My only concern is vibration, so I'll have to keep an eye on it and possibly use Loctite.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200119/f81c246ecd2325f92c9b89d2c09ca073.jpg)
These shots show some of the cable management. You can see how I coiled up the extra PAS cable.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200119/5061e833f1aed48a9cd4febab0982bea.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200119/097b854b2b1932da3f6815e5124b46b9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200119/e77b545e7671500a7e658bc2b3706b88.jpg)
The display was a straight forward replacement. Have to say the quality of the mount doesn't seem to be the same of the original, but it works fine.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200119/03fb861319d046d1c3ed45ef2c2c1d29.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200119/fe6018739f2a50233784606527244fc6.jpg)
More on settings next as I need to double check these.
Yea, that means I haven't hit the road yet...
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This last weekend I took it out for a test drive after the upgrade. I started with the max power limited and then worked my way up to max power.
I still need to redo the testing, but here are my first observations.
The color display looks great! The pedal assist seems more responsive and I can control how much power is available via the settings.
The limiting factor now seems to be the motor and you have to be careful not to push it as I assume it will fail if pushed too hard.
The motor will NOT go faster with the more power you make available to it. It hits a wall of no return and all that seems to happen is that battery life takes a dive.
My test run was up my street which has a slight incline and a steeper one at the end. I would ride up and then back down trying the brake regenerative feature. Once in a while taking a trip around the block.
Again, if the motor is the one I provided the link for before, then it is obviously the limiting factor. At one point the display reported 800 to up to 1000 watts of power and I did not stay there long. NO the bike did NOT take off.
I was easily able to maintain 23 MPH and on the uphill pulling more power I could comfortably reach 16-18 MPH but that was for a short time and I was helping with a bit of pedaling. But not heavy pedaling.
I need to adjust the settings to what I believe is reasonable for the motor and I'll probably keep the max power down to about the 750 watts RAD has rated the bike for. Then I'll take it out for a longer ride.
Also, I need to study the settings for the battery life as that seem to not work at all like I expected. It reported voltage and the bars did not really diminish as expected. I started with a reported voltage above 50. I believe it was about 52 volts. I did not top off the battery before the test drive. I have my DVM ready to take some measurements next time.
My concern right now is my range was really poor/bad. I believe this had to do with my pushing as much power as I could as many times as I did on a upward slope most of the time. When I reset the parameters and check the fuel gauge settings, I'll go for a longer ride and take a spare battery with me.
Overall, I see great potential and control I never had with this controller. I see my next upgrade being that 1500 watt motor they will hopefully come out with at Bolton Bikes and then maybe build higher voltage packs out of the tooo many Rad Battery packs I have.
More to come after I adjust parameters and go for that longer ride.
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Very interesting, thanks for reporting back.
I just installed my kit a few days ago. Curious if you figured out what settings you liked. Do you feel like you have dialed it in yet? Still trying to get my P2 correct for proper speed. 4/5/6 do not work. Still need to test out the others. Glad I found your post. Looking forward to your reply.
Quote from: Dennis Watkins on May 23, 2020, 07:01:06 PM
I just installed my kit a few days ago. Curious if you figured out what settings you liked. Do you feel like you have dialed it in yet? Still trying to get my P2 correct for proper speed. 4/5/6 do not work. Still need to test out the others. Glad I found your post. Looking forward to your reply.
I apologize to all for taking so long to update this post as I do not ride as often as I'd like.
Took the RadWagon out one time and proceeded to cause one of my batteries to shut down as I was pulling alot of power up a hill and I think I caused the heat to go to high in the battery or possibly I drew it down below the cutoff voltage. Once I was able to pull over, I swapped the battery and was back up and running. I checked the other once home and the fuses were fine, the voltage was fine, for a used battery, and it charged fine...
The cause was that the controller in PAS-5 was still trying to allow the motor to pull 900-1000 watts and the RadWagon motor does nothing with this other than drain your battery.
Thus I decided I needed to adjyst the C5 setting to possibly 05 or 04. 05 will allow (Max Current / 1.33) and 04 will allow (Max Current / 1.5).
Again, rememebr, these direct drive motors do NOT have a lot of torque and they are reall 500 watt motors or a little less. Allowing them to draw more power... you reach a wall that only drains you battery and can damage your motor.
So here is what I have now as settings:
LIM: 72 km/h --- LOL I wish... just want to see what is possible with the &^$%^#*&^ of a motor on these bikes
DIM: 26"
UNT: 3
P1: 46
P2: 5
P3: 1
P4: 0
P5: 15
C1: 3
C2: 0
C3: 1
C4: 0
C5: 06
C6: 3
C7: 1
C8: 0
C9: 0
C10: N
C11: 0
C12: 4
C13: 1
C14: 1
L1: 0
L2: 0
L3: 1
L4: 5
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE "L" SETTINGS DO SO I LEFT THEM AS THEY WERE FROM BOLTON BIKES. If anyone knows, please share.
Again, last ride out in PAS-5 the RadWagon was still trying to pull up to 1000 watts so I will be adjusting C5: to probably 04 to see what it does.
I also need to study the remaining setting and see what else might help, but for now, I do not want to prematurely drain my batteries and/or damage my motor.
Hope this helps...
Rich
Hey Rich, sounds like like you need a RadWagon 4 with the Bafang geared hub motor ;)
Thanks for continuing to share, very interesting info.
Quote from: Ryan on May 25, 2020, 07:44:43 PM
Hey Rich, sounds like like you need a RadWagon 4 with the Bafang geared hub motor ;)
Thanks for continuing to share, very interesting info.
Actually what I want is the rumored RadWagon motor / wheel upgrade from Bolton. I think he was talking about a 1000 or 1500 watt motor. And when Bolton stayed the power we know it's the true power of his motors. I have a controller, now I just need a motor.
But I have to admit, those next gen RadWagons look really nice.
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Hmm... it's interesting your P2 is 5 for proper speed and I found mine to be 1 to be correct. I think C5 diff needs adjusted. I seem to be running into some kind of limiter other than P1 and it might be associated with P5. With stock, I was able to go above 25 mph once I increase the min speed to 40. However, with P1 set to max, my speeds limits to 21-22 and this is at less than 400 watts. I thought it was my battery and when fully charged I am getting the same results. I'll check out your other settings and test again tomorrow. With this now being the warm season, it will give us more chances to play with the settings. Also, did you have any luck getting the stock controller off? I actually still haven't taken mine off. I installed the new controller below the stock on and secured with zip ties. Looks odd but works just fine. Also installing it here doesn't require the extender. At some point, I want to take off the old one and use brackets like I believe you are using. Or it might have been someone else. Just need to figure out where to get them. I'll figure it out out of season. Right now, I just want to enjoy the ride.
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE "L" SETTINGS DO SO I LEFT THEM AS THEY WERE FROM BOLTON BIKES. If anyone knows, please share.
Here is the full manual including the L settings. Might help you also dig deeper into settings.
http://www.szktdz.com/upload/file/20180814/20180814091428_61636.pdf
Quote from: Dennis Watkins on May 26, 2020, 06:38:05 PM
Hmm... it's interesting your P2 is 5 for proper speed and I found mine to be 1 to be correct. I think C5 diff needs adjusted. I seem to be running into some kind of limiter other than P1 and it might be associated with P5. With stock, I was able to go above 25 mph once I increase the min speed to 40. However, with P1 set to max, my speeds limits to 21-22 and this is at less than 400 watts. I thought it was my battery and when fully charged I am getting the same results. I'll check out your other settings and test again tomorrow. With this now being the warm season, it will give us more chances to play with the settings. Also, did you have any luck getting the stock controller off? I actually still haven't taken mine off. I installed the new controller below the stock on and secured with zip ties. Looks odd but works just fine. Also installing it here doesn't require the extender. At some point, I want to take off the old one and use brackets like I believe you are using. Or it might have been someone else. Just need to figure out where to get them. I'll figure it out out of season. Right now, I just want to enjoy the ride.
Wait, are you saying that you were able to go faster by reducing the max speed setting? That is indeed strange. As far as speed accuracy. I use app "Ride with GPS" and the MPH matches pretty close as well as total ride miles compared to controllers trip mileage.
Scroll back and you'll see my pics. I removed the stock controller and used brackets to raise up the installation point so it's on top of tubes. I was lucky to find the brackets at work. I'll see if I can find the drawing for them. Nothing too special but I believe one hole had a pressed nut installed in it.
The reported watts on PAS 4 seem reasonable but when I go to PAS 5 on a hill it reports up to 1000watts and that's not good for motor or battery. So I do indeed need to limit total power a bit more.
Thanks for link to Manual. I'll take a look...
I definitely want to upgrade the motor next. Need more torque and hill climbing power.
Got to run for now.
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Sorry. Decreasing max speed didn't make me go faster. Using the stock controller allowed me to go faster. This is why I think there is a setting or two wrong to allow the additional speed. I can't hit 25 mph on the new controller and was able to on stock. I am going to play a bit with some settings today to see if anything changes. Below is, most likely, the link to the motor being used. I suspect there is some kind of amp limiter in the device. 35x48=1680 watts which I defy haven't seen. I am talking about adjustment of the C5 value here. This current limiter is prob the hard limit you are talking about before you are just trying to push more but instead just wasting battery power. Here's what I think is going on. When C5 is set too high, the controller is displaying higher watts and trying to send more power to the motor but is being limited by the current limiter in the motor. Power is voltage x current. I question if the voltage supplied to the motor is max avail and wonder if it current applied could be exceeded before the max power is reached if C5 is too high. Maybe an example would help....750 watts could be 15 amp x 48 volts. Or could be say, 16 amps x 45 volts. Or 18.75 amps x 40 volts. All of these equal 750 watts. However, say, the motor has a current limiter of say 15 amps., then in the last case, the controller is trying to push 750 watts, but being current limited to 15 and the motor is really only pushing 600 watts when it could push more. So adjusting C5 to a lower value could prioritize the controller to push more voltage to the motor vs current and perhaps actually giving more overall power... Just a thought.
http://www.syimotor.com/productDe_5.html
Ok. C5 Deff impacts the max power the DD motor will put out. Oddly, going up in C5 values does not increase the max wattage. However, C5 00,01,02 will in the 1400's watts whereas C5 10 does not. (At least for me). Give it a try and let me know your results. Obviously it doesn't stay at this power nor would you want it to however it does seem to make it more zippy. Wife called me in so I guess that is all for now.
Quote from: Dennis Watkins on May 27, 2020, 07:54:46 AM
Ok. C5 Deff impacts the max power the DD motor will put out. Oddly, going up in C5 values does not increase the max wattage. However, C5 00,01,02 will in the 1400’s watts whereas C5 10 does not. (At least for me). Give it a try and let me know your results. Obviously it doesn’t stay at this power nor would you want it to however it does seem to make it more zippy. Wife called me in so I guess that is all for now.
According to the manual I have, C5 settings are... SEE ATTACHED as I cannot seem to figure out how to insert an image. was much easier on iPhone, now on computer...
C5 settings are for controlling the maximum operating current.
C5 Setting
===================
00 --> 02 UNDEFINED
03 = Max Current Value / 2.00
04 = Max Current Value / 1.50
05 = Max Current Value / 1.33
06 = Max Current Value / 1.25
07 = Max Current Value / 1.20
08 = Max Current Value / 1.15
09 = Max Current Value / 1.10
10 = Max Current Value
Thus lowering the value should limit the max current to motor with 03 being the lowest valid value.
Also, if you look back at the previous post I have a link to the motor in the 2018:
http://www.syimotor.com/productDe_5.html
and I have information on the factory controller and OHMS law etc..
https://www.radowners.com/index.php/topic,138.msg400.html#msg400
The problem with the factory motor seems to be that according to the new controller, we can allow it to pull as much power as it wants. I do not believe there are any current limiters in the motor and that is why we can burn it out. That is wht asfter it has exceed its efficiency point of no return it will such down the battery as the controller allows it to draw more current that it can't efficiently convert into usable energy and will eventually damage the motor. That is why I see the controller allowing the motor to draw up to 1000 watts, but I do not see any power / speed benefits really above say 700 watts... I'll have to pay attention... but I do hear the motor trying hard to use all that current.
So I have tried C5=05 and next I will try 04.
But I agree with your assessment that there must be some other setting that is not right and limiting or max speed. Possibly my weight as I'm about 210 lbs and I do not ever remember, even with stock controller, being able to use max throttle on a flat road and reaching 25 MPH. I think now I can reach between 21 to 23 MPH.
Quote from: Rjbur007 on May 27, 2020, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: Dennis Watkins on May 27, 2020, 07:54:46 AM
Ok. C5 Deff impacts the max power the DD motor will put out. Oddly, going up in C5 values does not increase the max wattage. However, C5 00,01,02 will in the 1400's watts whereas C5 10 does not. (At least for me). Give it a try and let me know your results. Obviously it doesn't stay at this power nor would you want it to however it does seem to make it more zippy. Wife called me in so I guess that is all for now.
According to the manual I have, C5 settings are... SEE ATTACHED as I cannot seem to figure out how to insert an image. was much easier on iPhone, now on computer...
C5 settings are for controlling the maximum operating current.
C5 Setting
===================
00 --> 02 UNDEFINED
03 = Max Current Value / 2.00
04 = Max Current Value / 1.50
05 = Max Current Value / 1.33
06 = Max Current Value / 1.25
07 = Max Current Value / 1.20
08 = Max Current Value / 1.15
09 = Max Current Value / 1.10
10 = Max Current Value
Thus lowering the value should limit the max current to motor with 03 being the lowest valid value.
C5 00-02 settings are only undefined in the non color controller. The Bolton ebike guy even says this in his video. But doesn't go over them for the color version. Attached are the defined values... whatever the heck they mean. I do get more power when using below 03 compared to 10 which is max power. Wish we knew what made it ride faster. I can ride 20 mph and only use 300 watts. So it should deff be able to go faster. I deff think using higher power will decrease the life of the motor which I am ok with. Hopefully Bolton Ebikes will have the motor upgrade you mentioned. When C5 is set to 00-02, it will get to 1470 watts but only briefly, and the quickly declines.
I don't think it's your weight holding back your max mph since I am maxing out the bike and getting the same.
Quote from: Dennis Watkins on May 26, 2020, 06:46:27 PM
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE "L" SETTINGS DO SO I LEFT THEM AS THEY WERE FROM BOLTON BIKES. If anyone knows, please share.
Here is the full manual including the L settings. Might help you also dig deeper into settings.
http://www.szktdz.com/upload/file/20180814/20180814091428_61636.pdf
Just checked again...I didn't find the "L" settings. The manual stops after the "C". Did I miss something?
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It's on the bottom of page 36 - 38 in the doc.
CD8 instrument L parameter definition
1. L1 parameters are applicable to the automatic under voltage controller. The
default of the factory L1 is 0.
1.1 L1=0, the automatic undervoltage controller can automatically select the under
voltage value according to the battery voltage.
1.2 L1=1, the undervoltage value of the automatic undervoltage controller is confirmed to be 20V.
1.3 L1 = 2, the under-voltage value of the automatic under-voltage controller is forcibly confirmed to be 30V.
1.4 L1 = 3, the under-voltage value of the automatic under-voltage controller is forcibly confirmed to be
L2 parameter is suitable for the super high speed motor controller. The default of the factory L2 is 0.
When the parameter P1 parameter is greater than 255, the L2 parameter is enabled. Combined with P1
2.1 L2=0, the P1 parameter is set as the calculated value.
2.2 L2=1, the P1 parameter is set as the 1/2 of the calculated value.
L3 parameter is applicable to the dual mode controller. The default of the factory L3 is 1.
3.1 L3=0, the controller only uses the no Holzer mode when the motor Holzer fails.
3.2 L3=1, dual mode controller selects operation mode according to system optimization.
I wanted to share my install. I still haven't removed the stock controller due to difficulties. Also need to get some black zip ties. However, by installing in this location, I didn't need to use an extension cable. I also did additional testing over the weekend and messing with the settings I can't seem to get beyond 25.4 mph. This is just cranking the throttle while on kick stand. Changing tire size is pretty much the same except if you change to 29ers. Then it actually jumped to 27ish. Which is odd. I didn't ride it on smaller tires with my phone speed to see if I could actually get it to go faster. I had limited time.
(https://scontent.fcmh1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/101760108_10221184801306225_1839178422908092416_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_oc=AQk6tiCD1lYuCTgJmikMu_FzSc3Km4m9WE1ES_5tnhFk06MLDFWCz-KCBqbkbb_T6IU&_nc_ht=scontent.fcmh1-1.fna&oh=d7a377184ba2a5a898d102fe9985f266&oe=5EF9A85D)
How are things running for you guys now that it's been a year+. I'm very interested in getting the upgrade kit for my 2019 Radwagon. I want a little more oomph off the line to get around town and was thinking to start with this kit. Perhaps upgrading to a geared motor if it isn't enough.
Hesedguy do you have a RadWagon3 or RadWagon4 as the RadWagon4 already comes with a geared hub motor?
It's a 2019 so RadWagon 3.
It's been a while....
I think I've said it in a few messages but maybe not here.
I have better off the line response, not amazing skid the tires, but a little better pickup.
My high end hits a brick wall as the 2018 Direct Drive motors are actually 500 watt that peek at 750. Feel cheated by Radpower Bikes.
Yes you can get the motor to pull more watts / current but that does NOT translate into speed. I have seen up to 850 to 900 + being pulled by my motor but all I get is a louder motor that pull more power from my battery wearing it down faster and no extra speed or torque.
I once overheated a battery and it shutdown. Had to swap the battery to let it cool down as it came back with no issues. So I'm assuming the BMS safety system shut the battery down to save it.
I adjusted my settings to throttle the controller to provide no more than about 800 watts peek.
NOW Bolton Ebikes offers a 1500 watt wheel and motor upgrade that requires yet another display and controller as part of the kit. I asked and they said no they would not sell me just the motor and that I had to buy the whole kit.
So of you ask me NOW / TODAY would I buy the kit I purchased I would say NO.
Save up and buy the 1500 watt wheel motor controller and display kit.
You will NOT get wow speed or power form the worthless direct drive motor.
Rich
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Thanks for the update. I almost bought the 1500W motor kit, but I questioned whether that would really do what I was hoping for. My plan as it stands it to try the upgrade by itself, and if that isn't enough I've got my eye on a wheel with geared hub from either Ebikeling.com or Ebikekit.com.
Quote from: Hesedguy on January 03, 2022, 04:02:55 PM
Thanks for the update. I almost bought the 1500W motor kit, but I questioned whether that would really do what I was hoping for. My plan as it stands it to try the upgrade by itself, and if that isn't enough I've got my eye on a wheel with geared hub from either Ebikeling.com or Ebikekit.com.
Well for me I wanted much faster of the line performance, a bit of increased speed, say to maybe 30 mph and more power / torque on the hills.
All I achieved was a little better response from the the motor when peddling or using the throttle and just 1 to two mph increase. I had to limit the controller not to burn out the direct drive motor and not to exceed the wall where more watts only achieved less range.
If you plan on replacing the direct drive motor with another of your choice, then the controller and display upgrade would be good. Of your expecting to be wowed by the replacement using the existing direct drive motor you will be discounted.
That said, you have if you can indeed ID a replacement motor alone that would with the 2018 series I'd be interested since I don't need 1500 watts. I'd appreciate a true 750 or 1000 watt geared hub motor with more torque for the hills.
I'm also looking to replace my front fork with a suspension fork.
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Finally got the BoltOn/Area 13 rad upgrade kit with 1500W motor installed and configured on my 2018 Radwagon. I had to replace the PAS sensor so I had to change C1 value to 7 but if you use the stock sensor keep it at 1. The following are the settings I successfully used using stock battery;
LIM: 72
DIM: 26
UNT: 3
P1: 46
P2: 6
P3: 1
P4: 0
P5:15
C1: 7 (1 for OEM sensor)
C2: 0
C3: 1
C4: 0
C5: 06
C6: 3
C7: 1
C8: 0
C9: 0
C10: N
C11: 0
C12: 4
C13: 0 (this is for regen braking. I havent played with this too much but Bolton tech said the DD motor does not regen. Your results may vary 0= OFF)
C14: 2
L1:0
L2:0
L3:1
L4:5