I went ahead and bought the "upgrade" motor for my RadMini. It wasn't a need, and I bought it partly out of curiosity, but it provided a nice opportunity for testing and comparison.
If you spend any time on e-bike websites and forums, I'm sure you've heard the claim that Rad motors are not "true" 750 watt motors, and you need to buy an upgrade. This idea started in an online forum, then became popular through YouTube. Oddly, most opinions on this are based on looks, and while there are many things you can determine by looks, electrical specifications are not one of them. That being said, I do like the motor and will be keeping it. It's a high quality unit and worth the money, depending on your needs.
Side by side comparison
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ee288/altema/motor_comparison_blank.jpg) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/altema/a/f6db7cc2-a159-4f9c-8933-bf243390f73f/p/471eb128-5ada-4a21-93bc-03514e40f34e)
The Rad and upgrade motors do have some differences in design. Most notable is the magnet shell. This is narrower on the Rad motor, and wider on the upgrade. What does this mean? It means the shell is wider. What seems to throw people off is that the Rad motor has this empty space between the stator windings and the mounting plate. The upgrade motor does not have this space... or does it? It turns out the upgrade motor also has an empty space. It's just in a different location.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ee288/altema/Motor_comparison_v3.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/altema/a/f6db7cc2-a159-4f9c-8933-bf243390f73f/p/0e84e7a3-3da6-42a5-8b24-1ac3b87ab641)
Although it seems the upgrade motor has bigger windings, in reality, it does not. The stator coils are the same size, as are the magnets.
The installation of the new motor itself went fine, with only one hitch: I was using a cast bit to remove the T-20 Torx head screws with anti-tamper pins, and the bit shattered. To avoid that, I purchased a forged Craftsman folding driver set, and used a butane mini-torch to soften the Locktite for the screws. The only settings changes required to the controller display was changing the speed pulse sensor (P2) from five to six.
Doing the math
I was a bit surprised when I could not get the motor specifications, so I had to do some testing on my own. Below are the results.
Stock Rad motor
Top speed: 23 mph
22 inch wheel RPM at 23 mph: 351.592
Motor RPM at 23 mph: 1757.96 (351.592 x 5)
Motor rating: 32.55 kV (approximate - electronically limited)
-------------
Bafang upgrade motor
Top speed: 27.4 mph
22 inch wheel RPM at 27.4 mph: 418.85
Motor RPM at 27.4 mph: 2094.26 (418.85 x 5)
Motor rating: 38.78 kV
The Rad kV rating is an estimate because it has a built-in limiter that starts reducing power electronically, so the motor is not free to reach it's natural RPM. The Bafang upgrade motor does not have this limiter, and this was one of the reasons I wanted to try it out. You can see the difference on the wattage being used at top speed: The Rad motor is only pulling a couple hundred watts at top speed, even though over a thousand watts is available, while the upgrade motor actually is pulling over a thousand watts at top speed.
Acceleration and hill climb tests
Tests with both motors were done on a RadMini 4 with dual batteries and a 35 amp controller, battery voltage at 54.3 volts, and the tires at 12 PSI. Performance would be better with more air in the tires, but since the first tests were done at low pressure, I kept them the same.
Original Rad motor 0 to 20 mph: 4.9 seconds
Bafang upgrade motor 0 to 20 mph: 4.9 seconds
Wait, what? You read that right, and I ran the tests multiple times. The motors had the same acceleration times. They are both a blast to ride with the 35 amp controller, with the Rad motor pulling ahead off the line and the upgrade motor catching it.
The hill climb test was a bit more subjective, but basically I drove up an absurd 28% grade berm for a freeway overpass. The Rad motor seemed to have a bit more low RPM torque, getting up without me touching the pedals. The upgrade motor had a little harder time, and although it made it, it was not as confidence inspiring.
In top speed, there was no comparison. The Rad motor can hit 23 mph if you change your settings, but the power starts being electronically reduced above 20. If you are already riding at 20 mph and go full throttle, the response is like "Well, ok, give me a minute" as it gradually gathers momentum on the restricted power. With the upgrade motor, it's prime time, and giving the throttle a full twist at 20 mph responds with the attitude of "Hold my beer!". Yes, it does top out at 27/28 mph because kV x voltage = RPM, but it gets you there decisively.
In conclusion, if you have off road or private areas where you can safely use the extra speed, the Bafang upgrade motor is worth every cent. If you need to keep it locked to 20 mph though, the Rad motor will do the same job and can handle the 1,600 watt power levels fine.
Nice analysis. Thanks for sharing.
Good report, thank you. I've been following your upgrades. Very informative.
Thanks very much for your comparison and analysis. Helps me to decide to leave well enough alone.
George
Thank you for sharing this info! Do you know what Bafang model the 750W hub motor is? Curious to see its specifications. And in which part (motor, controller) the power limitation is made that causes the stock 750W motor not giving the full power?
Edit: also are there somewhere photos / videos how the upgrade motor looks inside?
Cannot edit my previous post, so let's write a new one then..
Found an interesting conversation:
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/misleading-motor-information.34104/
There they say the Rad's 750W motor is actually a 350/500W motor that is just over-volted to the 750W peak power. Someone checked the real model by emailing Bafang directly with the motor's serial number and Bafang answered it to be the 500W version.
My wild guess is that the motor used by Rad is this one: https://bafang-e.com/en/oem-area/components/component/motor/rm-g060500dc/
So the nominal power is 500W and the peak power up to 750W (which I have never reached according to the bike's display, but around 730W).
Here are good details about the RadRhino 750W EU version (L1-eA) if someone needs: https://electricbikereview.com/rad-power-bikes/radrhino-750w/
Quote from: fin_rad on January 19, 2021, 09:08:16 PM
Thank you for sharing this info! Do you know what Bafang model the 750W hub motor is? Curious to see its specifications. And in which part (motor, controller) the power limitation is made that causes the stock 750W motor not giving the full power?
Edit: also are there somewhere photos / videos how the upgrade motor looks inside?
The Bafang model number is RM G060.750.D 06
Rad controller limits the motor power. The Rad motor internal RPM limiter limits the speed.
Photos showing inside both motors through the openings on the gear side are below.
Quote from: fin_rad on January 20, 2021, 04:00:45 AM
Cannot edit my previous post, so let's write a new one then..
Found an interesting conversation:
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/misleading-motor-information.34104/
There they say the Rad's 750W motor is actually a 350/500W motor that is just over-volted to the 750W peak power. Someone checked the real model by emailing Bafang directly with the motor's serial number and Bafang answered it to be the 500W version.
My wild guess is that the motor used by Rad is this one: https://bafang-e.com/en/oem-area/components/component/motor/rm-g060500dc/
So the nominal power is 500W and the peak power up to 750W (which I have never reached according to the bike's display, but around 730W).
Here are good details about the RadRhino 750W EU version (L1-eA) if someone needs: https://electricbikereview.com/rad-power-bikes/radrhino-750w/
I've seen those same threads. I would hesitate to dis an entire company based on one email from a service rep.
Especially when we have the physical motors in hand.
The thing is, you can have a ten thousand watt motor in your Rad, and do you know how much power you'll get when you twist the throttle? 730 watts. The peak power is set by the controller in this case, not the motor.
The Rad Power Bikes controller output is 15.625 amps. At 48 volts that's 750 watts, and when you factor in electrical resistance and voltage sag from the battery, 730 watts is normal.
So my question is; if the maximum power of the Rad motor is indeed 750 watts, why does it so easily handle 1,641 watts? That's how much power I've run through mine, frequently for mile after mile, for 600 miles. The motor has never gotten above barely warm, which is something I'm sure Lectric XP owners would be jealous of as they sit in the middle of a long hill waiting for their 500 watt motor to cool off.
The Rad motor has the exact same power capabilities as the Bafang upgrade motor. As a matter of fact, for startup torque, the Rad motor is BETTER than the upgrade. The only benefit to the upgrade motor is the higher top speed due to not having the electronic limiter.
I know nothing about this type of thing, but can the limiter be removed/disabled from the motor ? Tony
I read your comparison with interest. Thanks for testing them. Is there any difference in weight?
Thank you @Altema, that was a clear explanation how these things work.
Not sure if it would be possible that the RPB has used different types of Bafang hub motors under their 750W label? Because the hub motor I got in my RadRhino 750W EU gets so warm on average 350W (PAS 3) and on a 20 km average trip that it can melt snow around it. Until the gears got frozen when melted water turns into ice... So it surely gets warm enough even on some minus degrees (between 0 - -10 C).
Quote from: Tony on January 20, 2021, 03:41:03 PM
I know nothing about this type of thing, but can the limiter be removed/disabled from the motor ? Tony
That would require replacing the circuit board inside the hub, and soldering all the power, sensor, and stator coil connections. I'm not sure where you'd get the board, but if I had a free one sitting on my work bench, I'd rather spend the $249 to avoid all that work!
Quote from: fin_rad on January 21, 2021, 07:38:29 AM
Thank you @Altema, that was a clear explanation how these things work.
Not sure if it would be possible that the RPB has used different types of Bafang hub motors under their 750W label? Because the hub motor I got in my RadRhino 750W EU gets so warm on average 350W (PAS 3) and on a 20 km average trip that it can melt snow around it. Until the gears got frozen when melted water turns into ice... So it surely gets warm enough even on some minus degrees (between 0 - -10 C).
Based on that, it seem to me that the EU motor is different. I have a road near me with a 96 foot elevation gain. I rode my RadMini up it on throttle only, and the motor was barely warm. Same thing after 12 minute rides on mountain bike trails, and I was actually hoping the motor would be able to warm my fingers up, but it wasn't!
Quote from: vudude on January 20, 2021, 04:59:52 PM
I read your comparison with interest. Thanks for testing them. Is there any difference in weight?
There's a few ounces more on the new motor because of the magnet shell being wider. Both are very heavy, and when I carried them both at the same time, I didn't notice the difference.
Quote from: Altema on January 21, 2021, 12:39:30 PM
Quote from: fin_rad on January 21, 2021, 07:38:29 AM
Thank you @Altema, that was a clear explanation how these things work.
Not sure if it would be possible that the RPB has used different types of Bafang hub motors under their 750W label? Because the hub motor I got in my RadRhino 750W EU gets so warm on average 350W (PAS 3) and on a 20 km average trip that it can melt snow around it. Until the gears got frozen when melted water turns into ice... So it surely gets warm enough even on some minus degrees (between 0 - -10 C).
Based on that, it seem to me that the EU motor is different. I have a road near me with a 96 foot elevation gain. I rode my RadMini up it on throttle only, and the motor was barely warm. Same thing after 12 minute rides on mountain bike trails, and I was actually hoping the motor would be able to warm my fingers up, but it wasn't!
I recall checking the hub motor and controller when it was summer time here and over +20 C degrees - both did not feel even warm after a long trip on PAS level 3-5. More likely the motor is the same than yours and just generates enough heat while riding in winter temperatures that it can melt the snow.
Good though it is possible to upgrade the components. Not so easily done if you had a Bosch, Shimano etc. :)
Quote from: Altema on January 19, 2021, 02:12:31 PM
I went ahead and bought the "upgrade" motor for my RadMini. It wasn't a need, and I bought it partly out of curiosity, but it provided a nice opportunity for testing and comparison.
If you spend any time on e-bike websites and forums, I'm sure you've heard the claim that Rad motors are not "true" 750 watt motors, and you need to buy an upgrade. This idea started in an online forum, then became popular through YouTube. Oddly, most opinions on this are based on looks, and while there are many things you can determine by looks, electrical specifications are not one of them. That being said, I do like the motor and will be keeping it. It's a high quality unit and worth the money, depending on your needs.
Side by side comparison
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ee288/altema/motor_comparison_blank.jpg) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/altema/a/f6db7cc2-a159-4f9c-8933-bf243390f73f/p/471eb128-5ada-4a21-93bc-03514e40f34e)
The Rad and upgrade motors do have some differences in design. Most notable is the magnet shell. This is narrower on the Rad motor, and wider on the upgrade. What does this mean? It means the shell is wider. What seems to throw people off is that the Rad motor has this empty space between the stator windings and the mounting plate. The upgrade motor does not have this space... or does it? It turns out the upgrade motor also has an empty space. It's just in a different location.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ee288/altema/Motor_comparison_v3.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/altema/a/f6db7cc2-a159-4f9c-8933-bf243390f73f/p/0e84e7a3-3da6-42a5-8b24-1ac3b87ab641)
Although it seems the upgrade motor has bigger windings, in reality, it does not. The stator coils are the same size, as are the magnets.
The installation of the new motor itself went fine, with only one hitch: I was using a cast bit to remove the T-20 Torx head screws with anti-tamper pins, and the bit shattered. To avoid that, I purchased a forged Craftsman folding driver set, and used a butane mini-torch to soften the Locktite for the screws. The only settings changes required to the controller display was changing the speed pulse sensor (P2) from five to six.
Doing the math
I was a bit surprised when I could not get the motor specifications, so I had to do some testing on my own. Below are the results.
Stock Rad motor
Top speed: 23 mph
22 inch wheel RPM at 23 mph: 351.592
Motor RPM at 23 mph: 1757.96 (351.592 x 5)
Motor rating: 32.55 kV (approximate - electronically limited)
-------------
Bafang upgrade motor
Top speed: 27.4 mph
22 inch wheel RPM at 27.4 mph: 418.85
Motor RPM at 27.4 mph: 2094.26 (418.85 x 5)
Motor rating: 38.78 kV
The Rad kV rating is an estimate because it has a built-in limiter that starts reducing power electronically, so the motor is not free to reach it's natural RPM. The Bafang upgrade motor does not have this limiter, and this was one of the reasons I wanted to try it out. You can see the difference on the wattage being used at top speed: The Rad motor is only pulling a couple hundred watts at top speed, even though over a thousand watts is available, while the upgrade motor actually is pulling over a thousand watts at top speed.
Acceleration and hill climb tests
Tests with both motors were done on a RadMini 4 with dual batteries and a 35 amp controller, battery voltage at 54.3 volts, and the tires at 12 PSI. Performance would be better with more air in the tires, but since the first tests were done at low pressure, I kept them the same.
Original Rad motor 0 to 20 mph: 4.9 seconds
Bafang upgrade motor 0 to 20 mph: 4.9 seconds
Wait, what? You read that right, and I ran the tests multiple times. The motors had the same acceleration times. They are both a blast to ride with the 35 amp controller, with the Rad motor pulling ahead off the line and the upgrade motor catching it.
The hill climb test was a bit more subjective, but basically I drove up an absurd 28% grade berm for a freeway overpass. The Rad motor seemed to have a bit more low RPM torque, getting up without me touching the pedals. The upgrade motor had a little harder time, and although it made it, it was not as confidence inspiring.
In top speed, there was no comparison. The Rad motor can hit 23 mph if you change your settings, but the power starts being electronically reduced above 20. If you are already riding at 20 mph and go full throttle, the response is like "Well, ok, give me a minute" as it gradually gathers momentum on the restricted power. With the upgrade motor, it's prime time, and giving the throttle a full twist at 20 mph responds with the attitude of "Hold my beer!". Yes, it does top out at 27/28 mph because kV x voltage = RPM, but it gets you there decisively.
In conclusion, if you have off road or private areas where you can safely use the extra speed, the Bafang upgrade motor is worth every cent. If you need to keep it locked to 20 mph though, the Rad motor will do the same job and can handle the 1,600 watt power levels fine.
Couple of things here.
Most importantly there are MORE THAN ONE KV VARIANT OF BOTH MOTORS. The 750 is slightly more efficient at high power levels but how that affects performance depends on the kvs and test setting.
Second if you look more closely you find that the windings are actually bigger in 750 vs 500. There is slightly bigger gap (750 vs 500) in output side of the housing but less than you marked on your picture. Also the magnets are comparably longer and weight is more.
When you test low kv vs high kv at same input power you will find torque and topspeed differences (though the 750w has more torque when kvs are the same) However 750w version enables using higher power slightly more efficient.
Quote from: JTK77 on February 03, 2021, 12:54:34 AM
Couple of things here.
Most importantly there are MORE THAN ONE KV VARIANT OF BOTH MOTORS. The 750 is slightly more efficient at high power levels but how that affects performance depends on the kvs and test setting.
Second if you look more closely you find that the windings are actually bigger in 750 vs 500. There is slightly bigger gap (750 vs 500) in output side of the housing but less than you marked on your picture. Also the magnets are comparably longer and weight is more.
When you test low kv vs high kv at same input power you will find torque and topspeed differences (though the 750w has more torque when kvs are the same) However 750w version enables using higher power slightly more efficient.
The windings are bigger in the Rad motor. I've pulled the motors the rest of the way apart and measured them directly. The stator coil windings on the Rad motor are 0.65mm in diameter. On the upgrade motor they are 0.55mm.
The magnets are longer, but not by much. The magnet shell is 14mm wider, but the difference in the magnets is only 5mm. Actual magnet size is 16 x 25mm for the Rad, 16 x 30 for the upgrade motor. We'll see how efficient things are with the new motor. I have not noticed an increase in range yet, but that would be nice.
The biggest takeaway is that the Rad motor is not the villain. It handles all the power you can throw at it, and there is no difference in a drag race to the legal limit. I'd say that, unless you really need to get rid of the internal speed limiter for off road use, changing motors is pointless and makes the bike heavier. Granted, you won't keep up with Super 73's, but you won't have to push your bike up hills either ;)
Yes. Multistrand winding enables more copper fill. That's why the G060.750 can have thinner coil strand but still faster kv (in this case).
In overall the efficiency increases little but this is mostly beneficial in terms of fewer watts wasted in overheating as copperlosses. The difference naturally increases with more power used and is further effected by the increased copper temperature (increase in R).
I had the 750+52v+35A setup few years back but now running vented G062.1000 at 60v 40A..and going soon to custom 45-50A sinewave and custom 60v 24Ah 150A BT battery.
You think the proper 750 watt motor would be a noticable upgrade over the euro 250 model though ?
Maybe the euro model is a restricted 350/500 motor.
Quote from: Tony on February 03, 2021, 11:50:39 AM
You think the proper 750 watt motor would be a noticable upgrade over the euro 250 model though ?
Maybe the euro model is a restricted 350/500 motor.
Rad uses only 500w version of G060 motor in all markets. Changing only the motor (to 750) is not so noticable (slight improvement).
Cheapest and effective is to to G062.1000w ( prelaced ) preferably cassette version (DC) + Eggrider.
Depends what you want and at what cost.
I have the 35 amp Controller on order so I understand that should be a good improvement for the euro 250. I was thinking of adding the 750 motor as I would like some extra power for hills especially carrying some cargo. Top speed not really necessary.
Quote from: Tony on February 03, 2021, 01:42:04 PM
I have the 35 amp Controller on order so I understand that should be a good improvement for the euro 250. I was thinking of adding the 750 motor as I would like some extra power for hills especially carrying some cargo. Top speed not really necessary.
Yes, thats good idea.
Quote from: Altema on January 20, 2021, 11:30:39 AM
The Bafang model number is RM G060.750.D 06
Rad controller limits the motor power. The Rad motor internal RPM limiter limits the speed.
Is there any stamps on the motor (inside or outside) where I could identify which model the motor is? Just being curious and interested in learning how the ebike systems work. :)
Quote from: fin_rad on February 03, 2021, 08:01:41 PM
Quote from: Altema on January 20, 2021, 11:30:39 AM
The Bafang model number is RM G060.750.D 06
Rad controller limits the motor power. The Rad motor internal RPM limiter limits the speed.
Is there any stamps on the motor (inside or outside) where I could identify which model the motor is? Just being curious and interested in learning how the ebike systems work. :)
The meaning of Bafang model markings:
G060 = casing identification
750 = nominal rating
D = freewheel (DC = freehub)
(6) = winding identification (smaller is faster, no it directly equal to KV)
All Power versions within same casing series are swappable.
Rated model not possible to say what from casing as OEM customers can have custom labeling or motor core can ne swapped.
Rad has done both. In the past casing swap (+sticker) and nowadays custom labeling.
KV can ne identified by no load speed (wheel of the ground full throttle) If you have the throttle.
Good information, thank you.
Quote from: JTK77 on February 03, 2021, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: fin_rad on February 03, 2021, 08:01:41 PM
Quote from: Altema on January 20, 2021, 11:30:39 AM
The Bafang model number is RM G060.750.D 06
Rad controller limits the motor power. The Rad motor internal RPM limiter limits the speed.
Is there any stamps on the motor (inside or outside) where I could identify which model the motor is? Just being curious and interested in learning how the ebike systems work. :)
The meaning of Bafang model markings:
G060 = casing identification
750 = nominal rating
D = freewheel (DC = freehub)
(6) = winding identification (smaller is faster, no it directly equal to KV)
All Power versions within same casing series are swappable.
Rated model not possible to say what from casing as OEM customers can have custom labeling or motor core can ne swapped.
Rad has done both. In the past casing swap (+sticker) and nowadays custom labeling.
KV can ne identified by no load speed (wheel of the ground full throttle) If you have the throttle.
I just received this same motor RMG06 48V750W(6) from Bolton for my radrover 5 and had noticed the one Electric bike world sells is RMG06 48V750W(7)
would there be a noticeable difference in torque between the two? On hills?
I would have preferred more torque for hills, but would rather not return the one I already have if the difference is minimal and not really noticeable.
(I also do have the 35amp controller on order)
Thanks.
Quote from: JTK77 on February 03, 2021, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: fin_rad on February 03, 2021, 08:01:41 PM
Quote from: Altema on January 20, 2021, 11:30:39 AM
The Bafang model number is RM G060.750.D 06
Rad controller limits the motor power. The Rad motor internal RPM limiter limits the speed.
Is there any stamps on the motor (inside or outside) where I could identify which model the motor is? Just being curious and interested in learning how the ebike systems work. :)
The meaning of Bafang model markings:
G060 = casing identification
750 = nominal rating
D = freewheel (DC = freehub)
(6) = winding identification (smaller is faster, no it directly equal to KV)
All Power versions within same casing series are swappable.
Rated model not possible to say what from casing as OEM customers can have custom labeling or motor core can ne swapped.
Rad has done both. In the past casing swap (+sticker) and nowadays custom labeling.
KV can ne identified by no load speed (wheel of the ground full throttle) If you have the throttle.
Thank you for a good answer again - once more the answer opened more questions... So I will follow the path to learn more about electric motors. ;)
Quote from: springer03 on February 06, 2021, 11:35:50 AM
Quote from: JTK77 on February 03, 2021, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: fin_rad on February 03, 2021, 08:01:41 PM
Quote from: Altema on January 20, 2021, 11:30:39 AM
The Bafang model number is RM G060.750.D 06
Rad controller limits the motor power. The Rad motor internal RPM limiter limits the speed.
Is there any stamps on the motor (inside or outside) where I could identify which model the motor is? Just being curious and interested in learning how the ebike systems work. :)
The meaning of Bafang model markings:
G060 = casing identification
750 = nominal rating
D = freewheel (DC = freehub)
(6) = winding identification (smaller is faster, no it directly equal to KV)
All Power versions within same casing series are swappable.
Rated model not possible to say what from casing as OEM customers can have custom labeling or motor core can ne swapped.
Rad has done both. In the past casing swap (+sticker) and nowadays custom labeling.
KV can ne identified by no load speed (wheel of the ground full throttle) If you have the throttle.
I just received this same motor RMG06 48V750W(6) from Bolton for my radrover 5 and had noticed the one Electric bike world sells is RMG06 48V750W(7)
would there be a noticeable difference in torque between the two? On hills?
I would have preferred more torque for hills, but would rather not return the one I already have if the difference is minimal and not really noticeable.
(I also do have the 35amp controller on order)
Thanks.
I dont know the exact KV vs winding number relations but difference s between 6&7 is not big.
If you can test rear wheel of the ground full throttle speed with voltage information I can tell you the KV.
JTK77,
Thanks but I haven't installed it yet, I just received it and I am still waiting for the controller/display upgrade kit(back ordered)
I was just wondering if it was worth exchanging for the (7)
I didn't know how much 1 strand difference would make relating to torque when climbing hills.
If it's a small difference I'm not going to worry about it.
Thanks for the offer though!
Quote from: JTK77 on February 03, 2021, 10:31:33 AM
Yes. Multistrand winding enables more copper fill. That's why the G060.750 can have thinner coil strand but still faster kv (in this case).
In overall the efficiency increases little but this is mostly beneficial in terms of fewer watts wasted in overheating as copperlosses. The difference naturally increases with more power used and is further effected by the increased copper temperature (increase in R).
I had the 750+52v+35A setup few years back but now running vented G062.1000 at 60v 40A..and going soon to custom 45-50A sinewave and custom 60v 24Ah 150A BT battery.
Just to be clear, the windings on both motors is single strand solid core copper. The Rad kV cannot be determined because the internal limiter prevents the motor from reaching it's natural freewheel RPM.
What controller are you using for your new setup? I'm keeping my eye out for a sinewave controller instead of the cheap trapezoidal wave controller like I have now. It gets the job done and put 1600 watts through the stock Rad motor for 600 miles, but the noise and lack of efficiency still annoys me.
Altema
The windings are bigger in the Rad motor. I've pulled the motors the rest of the way apart and measured them directly. The stator coil windings on the Rad motor are 0.65mm in diameter. On the upgrade motor they are 0.55mm.
[/quote]
Do you think the 7 strand version would equal the size difference? And have any "noticeable" feel in your hill climb test?
Just curious, I'm not going to bother exchanging for a small difference. I would have upgraded the motor for the increased speed anyway but more torque would have been nice.
Quote from: springer03 on February 07, 2021, 02:18:38 PM
Do you think the 7 strand version would equal the size difference? And have any "noticeable" feel in your hill climb test?
Just curious, I'm not going to bother exchanging for a small difference. I would have upgraded the motor for the increased speed anyway but more torque would have been nice.
The locked rotor and low RPM torque of the Rad motor is a bit better, but the upgrade motor feels like it has a fatter torque curve above 10 mph. In the hill climb test, the Rad motor does better from a dead stop or from a very low RPM. I had to put one food down for stability because the back tire was slipping and chewing up the grass (sorry city workers!). The upgrade motor made it up the 28% grade also, but without quite as much authority.
But, severe hill climbs are a niche scenario, and once you get above a few MPH, the upgrade motor becomes more fun. I'm choosing to keep the upgrade motor in because I have more situations where the top end is important.
Quote from: Altema on February 08, 2021, 07:09:49 AM
Quote from: springer03 on February 07, 2021, 02:18:38 PM
Do you think the 7 strand version would equal the size difference? And have any "noticeable" feel in your hill climb test?
Just curious, I'm not going to bother exchanging for a small difference. I would have upgraded the motor for the increased speed anyway but more torque would have been nice.
The locked rotor and low RPM torque of the Rad motor is a bit better, but the upgrade motor feels like it has a fatter torque curve above 10 mph. In the hill climb test, the Rad motor does better from a dead stop or from a very low RPM. I had to put one food down for stability because the back tire was slipping and chewing up the grass (sorry city workers!). The upgrade motor made it up the 28% grade also, but without quite as much authority.
But, severe hill climbs are a niche scenario, and once you get above a few MPH, the upgrade motor becomes more fun. I'm choosing to keep the upgrade motor in because I have more situations where the top end is important.
Thanks
If I seen this thread before I ordered it I probably would have ordered Electric bike worlds motor with the 7 strand instead of 6, but I'm sure I'll be happy with the upgrade from stock. Once I get the new controller kit I'll put them in at the same time.
Thanks for taking the time for your testing 👍
Interesting, I contacted the Bafang support by email and asked them to check the motor model from its serial number... And they answered it is a 500W.
Edit: typos
Quote from: fin_rad on February 08, 2021, 08:15:55 PM
Interesting, I contacted the Bafang support by email and asked them to check the motor model from its serial number... And they answered it is a 500W. Does not change
On which motor?
My ebike is the RadRhino 750W EU my 2019, if that's what you asked? Original one, I have not changed it (yet :) ).
Quote from: fin_rad on February 08, 2021, 09:36:09 PM
My ebike is the RadRhino 750W EU my 2019, if that's what you asked? Original one, I have not changed it (yet :) ).
Yes, that is what I asked. We were talking about so many different models, I just wanted to make sure 😊
Quote from: Altema on February 07, 2021, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: JTK77 on February 03, 2021, 10:31:33 AM
Yes. Multistrand winding enables more copper fill. That's why the G060.750 can have thinner coil strand but still faster kv (in this case).
In overall the efficiency increases little but this is mostly beneficial in terms of fewer watts wasted in overheating as copperlosses. The difference naturally increases with more power used and is further effected by the increased copper temperature (increase in R).
I had the 750+52v+35A setup few years back but now running vented G062.1000 at 60v 40A..and going soon to custom 45-50A sinewave and custom 60v 24Ah 150A BT battery.
Just to be clear, the windings on both motors is single strand solid core copper. The Rad kV cannot be determined because the internal limiter prevents the motor from reaching it's natural freewheel RPM.
What controller are you using for your new setup? I'm keeping my eye out for a sinewave controller instead of the cheap trapezoidal wave controller like I have now. It gets the job done and put 1600 watts through the stock Rad motor for 600 miles, but the noise and lack of efficiency still annoys me.
Yes, the strands are single but every "turn count" is made of bundle of these wires (bundle is "multistrand").
The speed limiter is in the controller. On stock one you can set speed to 40kmh and change wheel size to min and then test no load speed calculating back to correct wheel size. With LCD3 or LCD8h you only need to play with wheel size is no load speed is more than 72kmh (I have currently just over 80kpm with current setup)
The new controller kit is custom KT version. The idea is cost effective Plug n play kit for 48v to 60v batteries. Will be verions for G060 (z916 motor cable) and G062 (L10 motor cable). Battery connection 10awg with xt90. PCB will be conformal coated.
Quote from: JTK77 on February 10, 2021, 01:59:33 AM
Quote from: Altema on February 07, 2021, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: JTK77 on February 03, 2021, 10:31:33 AM
Yes. Multistrand winding enables more copper fill. That's why the G060.750 can have thinner coil strand but still faster kv (in this case).
In overall the efficiency increases little but this is mostly beneficial in terms of fewer watts wasted in overheating as copperlosses. The difference naturally increases with more power used and is further effected by the increased copper temperature (increase in R).
I had the 750+52v+35A setup few years back but now running vented G062.1000 at 60v 40A..and going soon to custom 45-50A sinewave and custom 60v 24Ah 150A BT battery.
Just to be clear, the windings on both motors is single strand solid core copper. The Rad kV cannot be determined because the internal limiter prevents the motor from reaching it's natural freewheel RPM.
What controller are you using for your new setup? I'm keeping my eye out for a sinewave controller instead of the cheap trapezoidal wave controller like I have now. It gets the job done and put 1600 watts through the stock Rad motor for 600 miles, but the noise and lack of efficiency still annoys me.
Yes, the strands are single but every "turn count" is made of bundle of these wires (bundle is "multistrand").
The speed limiter is in the controller. On stock one you can set speed to 40kmh and change wheel size to min and then test no load speed calculating back to correct wheel size. With LCD3 or LCD8h you only need to play with wheel size is no load speed is more than 72kmh (I have currently just over 80kpm with current setup)
The new controller kit is custom KT version. The idea is cost effective Plug n play kit for 48v to 60v batteries. Will be verions for G060 (z916 motor cable) and G062 (L10 motor cable). Battery connection 10awg with xt90. PCB will be conformal coated.
Understood on the bundles. I've had three different controllers on this particular Rad motor, and the no load speed is 40km even if set to 70km. You can watch the power being throttled above 32km regardless of controller, so that makes me think the motor has an RPM limiter.
Your controller sounds interesting, so let me know if you start selling them. I always prefer the XT90, and use the sparkless version for batteries. My rack battery came with the mid size Anderson connector, which I feel is inferior and bulky. I could not find a panel mount version of the XT90, so I had to use the XT60 for accessory connections to the rack battery.
Quote from: Altema on February 10, 2021, 07:39:01 AM
Quote from: JTK77 on February 10, 2021, 01:59:33 AM
Quote from: Altema on February 07, 2021, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: JTK77 on February 03, 2021, 10:31:33 AM
Yes. Multistrand winding enables more copper fill. That's why the G060.750 can have thinner coil strand but still faster kv (in this case).
In overall the efficiency increases little but this is mostly beneficial in terms of fewer watts wasted in overheating as copperlosses. The difference naturally increases with more power used and is further effected by the increased copper temperature (increase in R).
I had the 750+52v+35A setup few years back but now running vented G062.1000 at 60v 40A..and going soon to custom 45-50A sinewave and custom 60v 24Ah 150A BT battery.
Just to be clear, the windings on both motors is single strand solid core copper. The Rad kV cannot be determined because the internal limiter prevents the motor from reaching it's natural freewheel RPM.
What controller are you using for your new setup? I'm keeping my eye out for a sinewave controller instead of the cheap trapezoidal wave controller like I have now. It gets the job done and put 1600 watts through the stock Rad motor for 600 miles, but the noise and lack of efficiency still annoys me.
Yes, the strands are single but every "turn count" is made of bundle of these wires (bundle is "multistrand").
The speed limiter is in the controller. On stock one you can set speed to 40kmh and change wheel size to min and then test no load speed calculating back to correct wheel size. With LCD3 or LCD8h you only need to play with wheel size is no load speed is more than 72kmh (I have currently just over 80kpm with current setup)
The new controller kit is custom KT version. The idea is cost effective Plug n play kit for 48v to 60v batteries. Will be verions for G060 (z916 motor cable) and G062 (L10 motor cable). Battery connection 10awg with xt90. PCB will be conformal coated.
Understood on the bundles. I've had three different controllers on this particular Rad motor, and the no load speed is 40km even if set to 70km. You can watch the power being throttled above 32km regardless of controller, so that makes me think the motor has an RPM limiter.
Your controller sounds interesting, so let me know if you start selling them. I always prefer the XT90, and use the sparkless version for batteries. My rack battery came with the mid size Anderson connector, which I feel is inferior and bulky. I could not find a panel mount version of the XT90, so I had to use the XT60 for accessory connections to the rack battery.
Ok. What voltage battery are you using for the Rad motor? Seems then you are hitting the no load rpm...changing controller wont have effect. This attached picture is simulated performance of G060.500 (stock Rad) with 48v battery and 2 different existing winding versions on Rover. There are one or two more. One in the middle and one might be even slower.
I'm using 52 volt batteries, and did my test with a near-full charge of 58.3 volts. Would the cutoff when hitting the no load RPM be that sudden? The motor pulls around 1500 watts at 20mph, then drops to 200 watts at 23? I'm just asking because the behavior seems odd.
Quote from: Altema on February 10, 2021, 06:07:36 PM
I'm using 52 volt batteries, and did my test with a near-full charge of 58.3 volts. Would the cutoff when hitting the no load RPM be that sudden? The motor pulls around 1500 watts at 20mph, then drops to 200 watts at 23? I'm just asking because the behavior seems odd.
What controller and display do you have? What wheel size setting and max speed setting? What exact when speed rear wheel of the ground and full throttle (and what voltage at that moment on display)? Any marking on the motor casing from Bafang?
Speed of 23 mph on Rover requires ~500w of power...so you need quite heavy pedaling effort (~300w) at 23 mph?
Typically 5 to 7 mph from peak power speed to no load speed.
Quote from: JTK77 on February 11, 2021, 12:08:29 AM
Quote from: Altema on February 10, 2021, 06:07:36 PM
I'm using 52 volt batteries, and did my test with a near-full charge of 58.3 volts. Would the cutoff when hitting the no load RPM be that sudden? The motor pulls around 1500 watts at 20mph, then drops to 200 watts at 23? I'm just asking because the behavior seems odd.
What controller and display do you have? What wheel size setting and max speed setting? What exact when speed rear wheel of the ground and full throttle (and what voltage at that moment on display)? Any marking on the motor casing from Bafang?
Speed of 23 mph on Rover requires ~500w of power...so you need quite heavy pedaling effort (~300w) at 23 mph?
Typically 5 to 7 mph from peak power speed to no load speed.
Controller is the 35 amp version sold by Electro Bike World and Bolton. Display is the usual KT-LCD3. Wheel size is set to 23 inches, actual wheel diameter is 22. 23 was the most accurate according to GPS. Wheel speed is 351.592, which makes the motor RPM 1757.96 because of the 5x gear reduction. I erred in the last post, and looking back through my notes the voltage was 54.0, not 58.3. The Radmini would require less effort due to the smaller diameter wheel, perhaps that's why it was pulling 200? By 23 mph, it was barely, and took a while getting there. If there is no limiter in the Rad motor, then the rating is 32.55 kV.
Quote from: Altema on February 12, 2021, 06:58:16 PM
Quote from: JTK77 on February 11, 2021, 12:08:29 AM
Quote from: Altema on February 10, 2021, 06:07:36 PM
I'm using 52 volt batteries, and did my test with a near-full charge of 58.3 volts. Would the cutoff when hitting the no load RPM be that sudden? The motor pulls around 1500 watts at 20mph, then drops to 200 watts at 23? I'm just asking because the behavior seems odd.
What controller and display do you have? What wheel size setting and max speed setting? What exact when speed rear wheel of the ground and full throttle (and what voltage at that moment on display)? Any marking on the motor casing from Bafang?
Speed of 23 mph on Rover requires ~500w of power...so you need quite heavy pedaling effort (~300w) at 23 mph?
Typically 5 to 7 mph from peak power speed to no load speed.
Controller is the 35 amp version sold by Electro Bike World and Bolton. Display is the usual KT-LCD3. Wheel size is set to 23 inches, actual wheel diameter is 22. 23 was the most accurate according to GPS. Wheel speed is 351.592, which makes the motor RPM 1757.96 because of the 5x gear reduction. I erred in the last post, and looking back through my notes the voltage was 54.0, not 58.3. The Radmini would require less effort due to the smaller diameter wheel, perhaps that's why it was pulling 200? By 23 mph, it was barely, and took a while getting there. If there is no limiter in the Rad motor, then the rating is 32.55 kV.
Sorry. Just now realized you have mini! That explains it surely. Your speed matches the 750w motor with winding label (7).
Quote from: JTK77 on February 13, 2021, 04:51:39 AM
Quote from: Altema on February 12, 2021, 06:58:16 PM
Quote from: JTK77 on February 11, 2021, 12:08:29 AM
Quote from: Altema on February 10, 2021, 06:07:36 PM
I'm using 52 volt batteries, and did my test with a near-full charge of 58.3 volts. Would the cutoff when hitting the no load RPM be that sudden? The motor pulls around 1500 watts at 20mph, then drops to 200 watts at 23? I'm just asking because the behavior seems odd.
What controller and display do you have? What wheel size setting and max speed setting? What exact when speed rear wheel of the ground and full throttle (and what voltage at that moment on display)? Any marking on the motor casing from Bafang?
Speed of 23 mph on Rover requires ~500w of power...so you need quite heavy pedaling effort (~300w) at 23 mph?
Typically 5 to 7 mph from peak power speed to no load speed.
Controller is the 35 amp version sold by Electro Bike World and Bolton. Display is the usual KT-LCD3. Wheel size is set to 23 inches, actual wheel diameter is 22. 23 was the most accurate according to GPS. Wheel speed is 351.592, which makes the motor RPM 1757.96 because of the 5x gear reduction. I erred in the last post, and looking back through my notes the voltage was 54.0, not 58.3. The Radmini would require less effort due to the smaller diameter wheel, perhaps that's why it was pulling 200? By 23 mph, it was barely, and took a while getting there. If there is no limiter in the Rad motor, then the rating is 32.55 kV.
Sorry. Just now realized you have mini! That explains it surely. Your speed matches the 750w motor with winding label (7).
Ok, thanks. You've been most helpful.
OK, I have another question, I've been reading and trying to understand the relation of the number of strand bundles to torque and speed.
If I understand correctly the 750w (6) will have a slightly higher top speed and lower, low speed torque?
And the 750w (7) will have slightly higher low speed torque?
I ask because I live in a area with a lot of steep hills and I have some nerve damage in my legs and don't have a lot of strength for hard pedaling.
I have the 2020 Radrover (26 inch Wheels) and my wife has the Radrunner Plus (20 inch wheels) Which if I understand correctly it
is better on hills than the 26 inch wheels.
If having the (7) strand version would be a little more helpful on inclines I'll just install the (6) on her bike and order The (7) for mine.
I guess what I'm asking is, will the (7) be better on hills and will the (6) be faster?
Will the (7) have a better 0 to 20mph time? The (6) have better 20+ acceleration?
Thanks!
Quote from: springer03 on February 13, 2021, 09:22:58 AM
OK, I have another question, I've been reading and trying to understand the relation of the number of strand bundles to torque and speed.
If I understand correctly the 750w (6) will have a slightly higher top speed and lower, low speed torque?
And the 750w (7) will have slightly higher low speed torque?
I ask because I live in a area with a lot of steep hills and I have some nerve damage in my legs and don't have a lot of strength for hard pedaling.
I have the 2020 Radrover (26 inch Wheels) and my wife has the Radrunner Plus (20 inch wheels) Which if I understand correctly it
is better on hills than the 26 inch wheels.
If having the (7) strand version would be a little more helpful on inclines I'll just install the (6) on her bike and order The (7) for mine.
I guess what I'm asking is, will the (7) be better on hills and will the (6) be faster?
Will the (7) have a better 0 to 20mph time? The (6) have better 20+ acceleration?
Thanks!
Yes, you are right. This is the simulation of (6) and (7) on Rover with 52v full battery. I have to remind I may not have the kv of (6) right on the last digit but very close. So what you can see is torque difference of ~10% below 5 mph and other way round solid 10Nm above 25 mph (Max 2 mph topspeed difference). Identical performance between 5 to 25 mph.
Quote from: JTK77 on February 13, 2021, 11:04:21 PM
Quote from: springer03 on February 13, 2021, 09:22:58 AM
OK, I have another question, I've been reading and trying to understand the relation of the number of strand bundles to torque and speed.
If I understand correctly the 750w (6) will have a slightly higher top speed and lower, low speed torque?
And the 750w (7) will have slightly higher low speed torque?
I ask because I live in a area with a lot of steep hills and I have some nerve damage in my legs and don't have a lot of strength for hard pedaling.
I have the 2020 Radrover (26 inch Wheels) and my wife has the Radrunner Plus (20 inch wheels) Which if I understand correctly it
is better on hills than the 26 inch wheels.
If having the (7) strand version would be a little more helpful on inclines I'll just install the (6) on her bike and order The (7) for mine.
I guess what I'm asking is, will the (7) be better on hills and will the (6) be faster?
Will the (7) have a better 0 to 20mph time? The (6) have better 20+ acceleration?
Thanks!
Yes, you are right. This is the simulation of (6) and (7) on Rover with 52v full battery. I have to remind I may not have the kv of (6) right on the last digit but very close. So what you can see is torque difference of ~10% below 5 mph and other way round solid 10Nm above 25 mph (Max 2 mph topspeed difference). Identical performance between 5 to 25 mph.
Thanks!
That graph explains exactly what I was wondering.
I went ahead and ordered the 7 for mine, as I would prefer the extra torque down low and will put the 6 in my wife's. Was going to upgrade hers down the line anyways.
Thanks again!
Quote from: JTK77 on February 03, 2021, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: fin_rad on February 03, 2021, 08:01:41 PM
Quote from: Altema on January 20, 2021, 11:30:39 AM
The Bafang model number is RM G060.750.D 06
Rad controller limits the motor power. The Rad motor internal RPM limiter limits the speed.
Is there any stamps on the motor (inside or outside) where I could identify which model the motor is? Just being curious and interested in learning how the ebike systems work. :)
The meaning of Bafang model markings:
G060 = casing identification
750 = nominal rating
D = freewheel (DC = freehub)
(6) = winding identification (smaller is faster, no it directly equal to KV)
All Power versions within same casing series are swappable.
Rated model not possible to say what from casing as OEM customers can have custom labeling or motor core can ne swapped.
Rad has done both. In the past casing swap (+sticker) and nowadays custom labeling.
KV can ne identified by no load speed (wheel of the ground full throttle) If you have the throttle.
I have one last question, I ordered 2 motors, one from Bolton and one from Electro Bike World, the one from Bolton is marked RM G060.750.D 06 with a little sticker with 26"/700c/28" BLDC for e-bike A4 and the one from Electro Bike World is marked RM G060.750.D 06 1 with sticker reading 20" BLDC for e-bike A5.
Does the "1" at the end on the second motor mean anything?
Do you know if these motors are identical?
I'm guessing they are but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.
Thanks!
Quote from: springer03 on March 02, 2021, 06:35:07 AM
Quote from: JTK77 on February 03, 2021, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: fin_rad on February 03, 2021, 08:01:41 PM
Quote from: Altema on January 20, 2021, 11:30:39 AM
The Bafang model number is RM G060.750.D 06
Rad controller limits the motor power. The Rad motor internal RPM limiter limits the speed.
Is there any stamps on the motor (inside or outside) where I could identify which model the motor is? Just being curious and interested in learning how the ebike systems work. :)
The meaning of Bafang model markings:
G060 = casing identification
750 = nominal rating
D = freewheel (DC = freehub)
(6) = winding identification (smaller is faster, no it directly equal to KV)
All Power versions within same casing series are swappable.
Rated model not possible to say what from casing as OEM customers can have custom labeling or motor core can ne swapped.
Rad has done both. In the past casing swap (+sticker) and nowadays custom labeling.
KV can ne identified by no load speed (wheel of the ground full throttle) If you have the throttle.
I have one last question, I ordered 2 motors, one from Bolton and one from Electro Bike World, the one from Bolton is marked RM G060.750.D 06 with a little sticker with 26"/700c/28" BLDC for e-bike A4 and the one from Electro Bike World is marked RM G060.750.D 06 1 with sticker reading 20" BLDC for e-bike A5.
Does the "1" at the end on the second motor mean anything?
Do you know if these motors are identical?
I'm guessing they are but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.
Thanks!
I have not aware If the "1" has some relevant meaning.
The indication of 20" wheel well describes the higher KV of that motor. The way you can compare these motors once installed is to set wheel diameter to same value on both bikes. Set speed limiter to 72 km/h or on stock controller Set wheel diam. to 20". Run bikes full throttle (full batteries) rear wheel of the ground. Compare Max speed values.
Quote from: JTK77 on March 02, 2021, 08:55:50 AM
Quote from: springer03 on March 02, 2021, 06:35:07 AM
Quote from: JTK77 on February 03, 2021, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: fin_rad on February 03, 2021, 08:01:41 PM
Quote from: Altema on January 20, 2021, 11:30:39 AM
The Bafang model number is RM G060.750.D 06
Rad controller limits the motor power. The Rad motor internal RPM limiter limits the speed.
Is there any stamps on the motor (inside or outside) where I could identify which model the motor is? Just being curious and interested in learning how the ebike systems work. :)
The meaning of Bafang model markings:
G060 = casing identification
750 = nominal rating
D = freewheel (DC = freehub)
(6) = winding identification (smaller is faster, no it directly equal to KV)
All Power versions within same casing series are swappable.
Rated model not possible to say what from casing as OEM customers can have custom labeling or motor core can ne swapped.
Rad has done both. In the past casing swap (+sticker) and nowadays custom labeling.
KV can ne identified by no load speed (wheel of the ground full throttle) If you have the throttle.
I have one last question, I ordered 2 motors, one from Bolton and one from Electro Bike World, the one from Bolton is marked RM G060.750.D 06 with a little sticker with 26"/700c/28" BLDC for e-bike A4 and the one from Electro Bike World is marked RM G060.750.D 06 1 with sticker reading 20" BLDC for e-bike A5.
Does the "1" at the end on the second motor mean anything?
Do you know if these motors are identical?
I'm guessing they are but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.
Thanks!
I have not aware If the "1" has some relevant meaning.
The indication of 20" wheel well describes the higher KV of that motor. The way you can compare these motors once installed is to set wheel diameter to same value on both bikes. Set speed limiter to 72 km/h or on stock controller Set wheel diam. to 20". Run bikes full throttle (full batteries) rear wheel of the ground. Compare Max speed values.
Thanks, I'm pretty new to this, 1 is going on a 20" wheel bike and 1 on a 26" wheel bike, if the one marked 20" has a higher kv, would it give more low end torque on the 26" bike?
I'm trying to figure out which motor to put on which bike.
Thanks so much
Quote from: springer03 on March 02, 2021, 09:25:23 AM
Quote from: JTK77 on March 02, 2021, 08:55:50 AM
Quote from: springer03 on March 02, 2021, 06:35:07 AM
Quote from: JTK77 on February 03, 2021, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: fin_rad on February 03, 2021, 08:01:41 PM
Quote from: Altema on January 20, 2021, 11:30:39 AM
The Bafang model number is RM G060.750.D 06
Rad controller limits the motor power. The Rad motor internal RPM limiter limits the speed.
Is there any stamps on the motor (inside or outside) where I could identify which model the motor is? Just being curious and interested in learning how the ebike systems work. :)
The meaning of Bafang model markings:
G060 = casing identification
750 = nominal rating
D = freewheel (DC = freehub)
(6) = winding identification (smaller is faster, no it directly equal to KV)
All Power versions within same casing series are swappable.
Rated model not possible to say what from casing as OEM customers can have custom labeling or motor core can ne swapped.
Rad has done both. In the past casing swap (+sticker) and nowadays custom labeling.
KV can ne identified by no load speed (wheel of the ground full throttle) If you have the throttle.
I have one last question, I ordered 2 motors, one from Bolton and one from Electro Bike World, the one from Bolton is marked RM G060.750.D 06 with a little sticker with 26"/700c/28" BLDC for e-bike A4 and the one from Electro Bike World is marked RM G060.750.D 06 1 with sticker reading 20" BLDC for e-bike A5.
Does the "1" at the end on the second motor mean anything?
Do you know if these motors are identical?
I'm guessing they are but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.
Thanks!
I have not aware If the "1" has some relevant meaning.
The indication of 20" wheel well describes the higher KV of that motor. The way you can compare these motors once installed is to set wheel diameter to same value on both bikes. Set speed limiter to 72 km/h or on stock controller Set wheel diam. to 20". Run bikes full throttle (full batteries) rear wheel of the ground. Compare Max speed values.
Thanks, I'm pretty new to this, 1 is going on a 20" wheel bike and 1 on a 26" wheel bike, if the one marked 20" has a higher kv, would it give more low end torque on the 26" bike?
I'm trying to figure out which motor to put on which bike.
Thanks so much
Yes. Higher Kv is higher speed. So putting that on 20" bike will even the differences (speed and torque) between the bikes. Not necessarily make them exactly identical though as Kv differenfe may not 100% compensate wheel size difference.
Quote from: JTK77 on March 02, 2021, 10:32:09 AM
Quote from: springer03 on March 02, 2021, 09:25:23 AM
Quote from: JTK77 on March 02, 2021, 08:55:50 AM
Quote from: springer03 on March 02, 2021, 06:35:07 AM
Quote from: JTK77 on February 03, 2021, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: fin_rad on February 03, 2021, 08:01:41 PM
Quote from: Altema on January 20, 2021, 11:30:39 AM
The Bafang model number is RM G060.750.D 06
Rad controller limits the motor power. The Rad motor internal RPM limiter limits the speed.
Is there any stamps on the motor (inside or outside) where I could identify which model the motor is? Just being curious and interested in learning how the ebike systems work. :)
The meaning of Bafang model markings:
G060 = casing identification
750 = nominal rating
D = freewheel (DC = freehub)
(6) = winding identification (smaller is faster, no it directly equal to KV)
All Power versions within same casing series are swappable.
Rated model not possible to say what from casing as OEM customers can have custom labeling or motor core can ne swapped.
Rad has done both. In the past casing swap (+sticker) and nowadays custom labeling.
KV can ne identified by no load speed (wheel of the ground full throttle) If you have the throttle.
I have one last question, I ordered 2 motors, one from Bolton and one from Electro Bike World, the one from Bolton is marked RM G060.750.D 06 with a little sticker with 26"/700c/28" BLDC for e-bike A4 and the one from Electro Bike World is marked RM G060.750.D 06 1 with sticker reading 20" BLDC for e-bike A5.
Does the "1" at the end on the second motor mean anything?
Do you know if these motors are identical?
I'm guessing they are but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.
Thanks!
I have not aware If the "1" has some relevant meaning.
The indication of 20" wheel well describes the higher KV of that motor. The way you can compare these motors once installed is to set wheel diameter to same value on both bikes. Set speed limiter to 72 km/h or on stock controller Set wheel diam. to 20". Run bikes full throttle (full batteries) rear wheel of the ground. Compare Max speed values.
Thanks, I'm pretty new to this, 1 is going on a 20" wheel bike and 1 on a 26" wheel bike, if the one marked 20" has a higher kv, would it give more low end torque on the 26" bike?
I'm trying to figure out which motor to put on which bike.
Thanks so much
Yes. Higher Kv is higher speed. So putting that on 20" bike will even the differences (speed and torque) between the bikes. Not necessarily make them exactly identical though as Kv differenfe may not 100% compensate wheel size difference.
Thank you, I think I finally got it,
Higher kv=higher speed, lower torque
Lower kv=higher torque, lower speed
Put the 20 on the 20 will get more speed, and the 26 on the 26 will get more torque, which will mostly even the difference of wheel size.
Thanks again!