$999 RadCity 4 - Is this a good deal?

[Ryan]

I believe this price change is new on the high-step model of the RadCity: https://bit.ly/3hxm4mV

Seems like a great deal to me though this model has been around some time. It's interesting that the step-thru is not available so I wonder if the non-Plus City bikes are getting phased out of the lineup completely. Curious what others think of this deal. Using the link above for any Rad Power Bikes purchase helps support the forum (thank you!).

[Eric7]

Just my opinion:

I think Rad is getting out of the low-end business because it is hard to compete.

It is a direct-drive bike, with lower torque, and if you don't apply electricity, there is a drag. I don't think I want a direct-drive bike but it is personal. I prefer something with more torque in stop-and-go city traffic with an occasional stop on a steep hill. Sometimes when the car in front of you stop, you got to stop too.  And then you got to go when there is a chance so the torque is important.

It is a city bike, so a step-through is probably more versatile. You can lend a step through to your kid, grandpa/ma, boy/girl friend for a trip to the grocery.  For a stop and go city bike (maybe carrying groceries), the ability to put your feet solidly on the ground when you stop is probably more important than an off road or racing bike. The city/cargo/commuter bike would preferably be exactly the right size or even a bit smaller if you are carrying a load and stopping at all traffic signs.

It is a good deal for the right height person who can put both heels solidly on the ground with some clearance to spread the legs out a bit for stability on a stop and don't mind my two points above.

[handlebar]

Just my opinion:

...

It is a direct-drive bike, with lower torque, and if you don't apply electricity, there is a drag. I don't think I want a direct-drive bike but it is personal. I prefer something with more torque in stop-and-go city traffic with an occasional stop on a steep hill. Sometimes when the car in front of you stop, you got to stop too.  And then you got to go when there is a chance so the torque is important.

.....

I had misgivings about buying a one-speed Radrunner. My experience with the OEM controller made me regret my purchase.

On a hill, I found that the motor was producing 500 watts, not the advertised 750. Later, I realized Radpower was advertising input, not output. That might be legitimate, but the 2020 review video put on by the Radpower founder and the editor of Electric Bike Review, showed an output of well over 1000 watts. The editor said he weighed 130. He pointed out a sign warning that the streets in the neighborhood were up to 13 degrees (22.5%). He said he would climb the hills without pedaling because his knees were bad.  (A guy who doesn't pedal testing bicycles?)

At one point, he passed two Radpower employees who were using pedal assist. He looked at the house on their right, with the camera on his helmet. The lawn was on the same plane as the pavement, and the eaves were horizontal. It was a 17% grade. Their cadence showed they were pedaling at 13 mph. He had at least 2 mph on them: 15 mph. Climbing alone required 1070  watts output. His bike put out twice as much power as mine.

There was no sign of wind in the background trees in the video. In still air, he must have had a 15 mph relative wind. At that speed, it takes significant wattage to overcome aerodynamic drag. What's more, he'd said that he'd let air out of his tires for comfort. That eats up wattage. If the motor turned out 1500 watts at 75% efficiency, it would mean 2000 electrical watts, perhaps a 40 amp controller.

The OEM controller seems to be 15 amps. I lost confidence in the company. The bike they'd sent me was a far cry from the bike they'd demonstrated.

To test torque, I found a paved driveway that would slow me to walking speed, about 3 mph. For an electric motor, torque is greater as slower speeds. The fact that it slowed to that speed showed that torque was about 46 newton meters at that speed and less at higher speeds. That's a far cry from the advertised 80.

Others have I think filed suit over deceptive power claims. Radpower says it's just quoting the motor manufacturer's specifications. Do they not know that their controllers determine motor power?

I ordered a Bolton controller. Radpower warned me that this would void my warranty on electrical parts. In view of their EBR video, that was the height of hypocrisy. It may have more than twice the power of the OEM controller. Starting torque was the first difference I noticed. A couple of times I popped wheelies. The remedy was simple. Start with one foot on a pedal at 6 o'clock, the other on the ground, and no weight on the seat. The Radpower controller probably made startup torque very low to prevent dangerous wheelies.

Above 5 mph, my Radmission accelerates nicely, but it's very slow from a stop sign, which can be dangerous on a busy road. Although the motor is narrower than that on the Radrunner, it feels heavier. With another controller, it might start off fast. Are better controllers available?

[JimInPT]

I ordered a Bolton controller. Radpower warned me that this would void my warranty on electrical parts. In view of their EBR video, that was the height of hypocrisy. It may have more than twice the power of the OEM controller. Starting torque was the first difference I noticed. A couple of times I popped wheelies. The remedy was simple. Start with one foot on a pedal at 6 o'clock, the other on the ground, and no weight on the seat. The Radpower controller probably made startup torque very low to prevent dangerous wheelies.

Above 5 mph, my Radmission accelerates nicely, but it's very slow from a stop sign, which can be dangerous on a busy road. Although the motor is narrower than that on the Radrunner, it feels heavier. With another controller, it might start off fast. Are better controllers available?

I think the Bolton 35A controller is a good one for our Rad bikes - maybe you just need to do a little tweaking to settings.  Here's a pretty good video on how to program them and what they do:  https://youtu.be/y_NEXdUCOiY and I've attached a chart of my various setting tests (mine is a 2021 MiniST2, so your preferred settings may differ) - the "Jim4" column are the ones I've been running for some time.

Hope this helps.

[handlebar]

Hope this helps.

Radrunner - Thanks. First, I set mine according to a Bolton video. Then I downloaded the PDF manual. For some reason, I contacted tech support at Bolton. The man recommended changing the setting for the method of estimating remaining battery life. He said otherwise my settings were good.

Mine varies from your chart at Wheel Diameter (24"),
P2 Number wheel speed sensors (1)
C4 Throttle control (4)
C6 Backlight (5)

My tire diameter is the standard 23". I changed the setting to 24 because, according to a map, the odometer is closer to being correct.

I don't know whether my P2 setting of a single wheel sensor was recommended or is a mistake, but it works.

I see your note that on C4, 3 allows throttle use on PAS 0. Thanks, I'll change.

C6 is all the way up because I find the Bolton color controller hard to read in daylight.