Dead Battery After 15 Months - Rad Not Willing To Replace - Help

[ztglare]

My family and I purchased a Rad Wagon 4 in May 2021 and have been loving the bike ever since. We have ridden almost 700 miles on the bike and it has been an amazing addition to our daily routine. Unfortunately this week after doing a quick 3 mile ride, the battery ceased to function on the return trip. I pedaled it home w/o power and immediately attempted to charge it. When I plugged it into the power charger it showed full charge, but the battery does not power the bike or LCD/display. I have replaced the fuses and used different outlets for the the power supply. When I press the "charge" button on the battery I get 3 green lights (and 1 red) when it's charging via the power source, but nothing when I put it on the bike w/o power source. Unfortunately Rad is telling me since the battery is more than 12 months old it will be full cost to replace it. $600+ and four weeks of waiting time. Ouch.

Any advice or guidance would be super helpful as I've gone from HUGE Rad advocate to anyone that would listen, to strong voice of negativity around service, support and durability given my experience.

[Rover]

That is a bummer for sure. And I'm having a similar battery issue with my brand new Rover 6. But the warranty on the bike--all of its parts--has expired. It would be nice is RAD gave you some grace since it's such a low mileage bike. On the other hand, the battery is no longer under warranty. I can see your point, and also theirs.

[Eric7]

Use a volt meter ($30 at local hardware store) and measure the voltage of the battery pack at the regular battery output. This message is intended for bike mechanics with experience and knowledge with ebikes and working with a bike is dangerous. Shorting things may fry your electronics/battery/your person. And if your bike suddenly start up it can cause injury.  Do this at your own risk.

I think your battery is sort of OK especially since it shows a full charge. I think something is not connecting. My reason for the diagnosis is that even a bad battery would light up the display at least, and maybe even power the bike for one mile.

The disconnect (1) may be internal to your battery, (2) somewhere on the bike, or (3) in the connector between the battery and the bike.  Most likely it is (3) because that part gets the most use/abuse.  Your volt meter will let you know.

[joeliniowa]

RAD has little (NO) sympathy for out of warranty stuff!   Well isn't that all worn out, wouldn't you like a NEW what ever.  Batteries are good for ~1000 full charge cycles.  I bet you're close.  One cell out of spec & it stops.  That's the wonder or LiIO Technology.  I'd get a new one.  They consider 1yr + batteries a consumable, just like brake pads or tires.

Take your self on a learning adventure and rebuild the old / dead one.  There are THOUSANDS of YouTube video's on LiIO battery, repair, troubleshooting, components, and how to build a new one.  If you use better cells, you'll get 2+ years from the rebuilt one.

Sorry I keep digging, biggamebikes does offer a battery referb option.  Email them... 

You're still gonna have to buy one.

Enjoy your adventure, they don't care...

JLH

[Tree]

RAD has little (NO) sympathy for out of warranty stuff!   Well isn't that all worn out, wouldn't you like a NEW what ever.  Batteries are good for ~1000 full charge cycles.  I bet you're close.  One cell out of spec & it stops.  That's the wonder or LiIO Technology.  I'd get a new one.  They consider 1yr + batteries a consumable, just like brake pads or tires.

Take your self on a learning adventure and rebuild the old / dead one.  There are THOUSANDS of YouTube video's on LiIO battery, repair, troubleshooting, components, and how to build a new one.  If you use better cells, you'll get 2+ years from the rebuilt one.

Sorry I keep digging, biggamebikes does offer a battery referb option.  Email them... 

You're still gonna have to buy one.

Enjoy your adventure, they don't care...

JLH

you act like Rad is the bad guy here.

While I empathize with the frustration of the bike and battery suddenly not working, I'm not really sure why you believe Rad should ignore its own warranty.

[joeliniowa]

I don't believe they shouldn't.  They clearly state 12 months.  It is very unfortunate, most of us SAVE for the original purchase.  Those long range costs are part of the deal.  Sorry.  There are options, none unfortunately are free...

[Tree]

I don't believe they shouldn't.  They clearly state 12 months.  It is very unfortunate, most of us SAVE for the original purchase.  Those long range costs are part of the deal.  Sorry.  There are options, none unfortunately are free...

this, exactly. I saved for my bike. I bought it with cash as a celebration of paying off 20+ years of debt.

But I've also got a reserve fund - something my wife insisted on so I wouldn't rely on a credit card - for when I need (or lol want) things for my bike.

a new battery would be a huge hit, but I view my bike as I view my car, and maintenance is part of the deal.

[DickB]

Batteries are good for ~1000 full charge cycles.

Rad claims 800 cycles. Samsung says 80% capacity after 500 cycles. Actual results are very dependent upon how the batteries are used, charged, and stored. DoD (Depth of Discharge) is a major determining factor. For example, look at the attached chart. If you fully charge then fully discharge your battery, expect 300 cycles. If you charge then discharge 50%, expect 1000 cycles (not 600).  Another reason to fully charge after every ride.

[joeliniowa]

Batteries are good for ~1000 full charge cycles.

Rad claims 800 cycles. Samsung says 80% capacity after 500 cycles. Actual results are very dependent upon how the batteries are used, charged, and stored. DoD (Depth of Discharge) is a major determining factor. For example, look at the attached chart. If you fully charge then fully discharge your battery, expect 300 cycles. If you charge then discharge 50%, expect 1000 cycles (not 600).  Another reason to fully charge after every ride.

KUDOS

[jbfoster]

If a RAD battery does 1,000 cycles it should of lasted more than 700 miles. If you get an average of 25 miles a ride and charge that would only be about 50 or so cycles. I can see a 12 month warranty on the bike but the battery should come with a longer warranty. My RAD rover 5 was 5 months past the warranty with 750 miles when I got Error 25 and the bike would not do anything. I unplugged the brake light and it's working fine. I unplugged the head light and plugged the tail light back in and got the error 25. I unplugged the wires going to the brake handles and still got the error. My thinking was maybe a controller or the brake light so I checked RAD's web site but did not see the controller or brake light listed so I contacted RAD and asked if they still sold the controller and brake light. RAD responded by saying I need to follow the trouble shooting guide on their site for error 30. I didn't want to spend the time and effort disconnecting all the plugs one by one if the parts were not available so I contacted RAD again on availability of the parts. They still would not tell me and said I have to do the trouble shooting first. I am not going to waste my time not knowing if I can get the parts and how much they cost so I just left my brake light unplugged.  I will continue to ride my RAD till it's stops working. Iv'e been wanting a folding Ebike but from the posts I see here and else where plus the bad BBB complaints I won't be buying another RAD.  That's too bad because I like the Radexpand 5. Also some of their design choices have turned out to be bad idea.

Jim

[Tree]

If a RAD battery does 1,000 cycles it should of lasted more than 700 miles. If you get an average of 25 miles a ride and charge that would only be about 50 or so cycles. I can see a 12 month warranty on the bike but the battery should come with a longer warranty. My RAD rover 5 was 5 months past the warranty with 750 miles when I got Error 25 and the bike would not do anything. I unplugged the brake light and it's working fine. I unplugged the head light and plugged the tail light back in and got the error 25. I unplugged the wires going to the brake handles and still got the error. My thinking was maybe a controller or the brake light so I checked RAD's web site but did not see the controller or brake light listed so I contacted RAD and asked if they still sold the controller and brake light. RAD responded by saying I need to follow the trouble shooting guide on their site for error 30. I didn't want to spend the time and effort disconnecting all the plugs one by one if the parts were not available so I contacted RAD again on availability of the parts. They still would not tell me and said I have to do the trouble shooting first. I am not going to waste my time not knowing if I can get the parts and how much they cost so I just left my brake light unplugged.  I will continue to ride my RAD till it's stops working. Iv'e been wanting a folding Ebike but from the posts I see here and else where plus the bad BBB complaints I won't be buying another RAD.  That's too bad because I like the Radexpand 5. Also some of their design choices have turned out to be bad idea.

Jim

you just described the issues most ebike companies are currently having - Rad is far from the only one. From customer service to the lack of availability of parts, this is an almost industry wide issue.

Also, it's not 1960 anymore - the BBB is a useless, antiquated organization. From the pay-to-play scandal from about a dozen years back, to sutations such as this one: https://www.elliott.org/blog/better-business-bureau-ratings-mean-nothing/, the BBB is not in the least bit trustworthy.

[jbfoster]

If a RAD battery does 1,000 cycles it should of lasted more than 700 miles. If you get an average of 25 miles a ride and charge that would only be about 50 or so cycles. I can see a 12 month warranty on the bike but the battery should come with a longer warranty. My RAD rover 5 was 5 months past the warranty with 750 miles when I got Error 25 and the bike would not do anything. I unplugged the brake light and it's working fine. I unplugged the head light and plugged the tail light back in and got the error 25. I unplugged the wires going to the brake handles and still got the error. My thinking was maybe a controller or the brake light so I checked RAD's web site but did not see the controller or brake light listed so I contacted RAD and asked if they still sold the controller and brake light. RAD responded by saying I need to follow the trouble shooting guide on their site for error 30. I didn't want to spend the time and effort disconnecting all the plugs one by one if the parts were not available so I contacted RAD again on availability of the parts. They still would not tell me and said I have to do the trouble shooting first. I am not going to waste my time not knowing if I can get the parts and how much they cost so I just left my brake light unplugged.  I will continue to ride my RAD till it's stops working. Iv'e been wanting a folding Ebike but from the posts I see here and else where plus the bad BBB complaints I won't be buying another RAD.  That's too bad because I like the Radexpand 5. Also some of their design choices have turned out to be bad idea.

Jim

you just described the issues most ebike companies are currently having - Rad is far from the only one. From customer service to the lack of availability of parts, this is an almost industry wide issue.

Also, it's not 1960 anymore - the BBB is a useless, antiquated organization. From the pay-to-play scandal from about a dozen years back, to sutations such as this one: https://www.elliott.org/blog/better-business-bureau-ratings-mean-nothing/, the BBB is not in the least bit trustworthy.

Yes all companies are affected but I see way more complaints about RAD. The BBB is not useless. It's just one source of info on a company. You can also look at the different forums and Facebook.

[DickB]

Are you willing to open your battery and do some simple checks with a voltmeter?

[Tree]

If a RAD battery does 1,000 cycles it should of lasted more than 700 miles. If you get an average of 25 miles a ride and charge that would only be about 50 or so cycles. I can see a 12 month warranty on the bike but the battery should come with a longer warranty. My RAD rover 5 was 5 months past the warranty with 750 miles when I got Error 25 and the bike would not do anything. I unplugged the brake light and it's working fine. I unplugged the head light and plugged the tail light back in and got the error 25. I unplugged the wires going to the brake handles and still got the error. My thinking was maybe a controller or the brake light so I checked RAD's web site but did not see the controller or brake light listed so I contacted RAD and asked if they still sold the controller and brake light. RAD responded by saying I need to follow the trouble shooting guide on their site for error 30. I didn't want to spend the time and effort disconnecting all the plugs one by one if the parts were not available so I contacted RAD again on availability of the parts. They still would not tell me and said I have to do the trouble shooting first. I am not going to waste my time not knowing if I can get the parts and how much they cost so I just left my brake light unplugged.  I will continue to ride my RAD till it's stops working. Iv'e been wanting a folding Ebike but from the posts I see here and else where plus the bad BBB complaints I won't be buying another RAD.  That's too bad because I like the Radexpand 5. Also some of their design choices have turned out to be bad idea.

Jim

you just described the issues most ebike companies are currently having - Rad is far from the only one. From customer service to the lack of availability of parts, this is an almost industry wide issue.

Also, it's not 1960 anymore - the BBB is a useless, antiquated organization. From the pay-to-play scandal from about a dozen years back, to sutations such as this one: https://www.elliott.org/blog/better-business-bureau-ratings-mean-nothing/, the BBB is not in the least bit trustworthy.

Yes all companies are affected but I see way more complaints about RAD. The BBB is not useless. It's just one source of info on a company. You can also look at the different forums and Facebook.

You see way more complaints about RAD because they're the biggest company out there. They sell WAY more bikes than anyone else, and of the hundreds of thousands of bikes they've sold, only a small - but vocal - percent are feeling wronged.

[jbfoster]

You see way more complaints about RAD because they're the biggest company out there. They sell WAY more bikes than anyone else, and of the hundreds of thousands of bikes they've sold, only a small - but vocal - percent are feeling wronged.

You have a point on that. I do believe I have heard 2 or 3 say they are the biggest Ebike company in the USA.  It's hard to know what the real percentage is for the different companies. Some won't put all the reviews on their website either, just the good ones. I have been wanting a folding Ebike so I have looked and looked, read reviews and watched Youtube videos. They all have similar complaints. Most of the Ebike companies pretty much probably get the same parts being they all have the same issues with their Ebikes. I almost decided on the Lectric XP 2.0.  The XP 2.0 has a good price point but after watching some videos I think I would disappointed with the 500W motor. So I have been looking for a for a folding bike with a 750W motor. Nothing in that price range of the Lectric XP 2.0. Everything I liked was above $1,600. Every time I look around I end up liking the RAD Expand 5 the most but after my experience with RAD I have A hard time actually ordering it.

Jim