Author Topic: Getting old  (Read 975 times)

Muskie1

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
    • View Profile
Getting old
« on: June 26, 2022, 01:03:57 PM »
 I have a Mini 4 , a little over 600 hundred miles since I got it in the fall of last year, Michigan weather shut me down for awhile.
 I have never felt safe on it, balancing is hard at low speeds.  So I took my 25 year old Trek out today,  no problems with balancing, is it larger tires and a gyroscope effect that helps.

I do like my Mini, any low speed turns are not good.

Eric7

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
    • View Profile
Re: Getting old
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2022, 06:21:54 AM »
I have a Mini 4 , a little over 600 hundred miles since I got it in the fall of last year, Michigan weather shut me down for awhile.
 I have never felt safe on it, balancing is hard at low speeds.  So I took my 25 year old Trek out today,  no problems with balancing, is it larger tires and a gyroscope effect that helps.

I do like my Mini, any low speed turns are not good.

Congratulations for 600 miles.  I suspect we are about the same age.  I have fallen maybe 20 times but I am getting the hang of it and it is still a lot of fun.  Most of my falls have been low speed - for example, trying to stay on the bike path without running over the grass. 

I suggest we have to think about it with a new prospective.  It is not really an bicycle that has been electrified but more of a category all of its own.

It is a darn heavy bike and not that different from a moped.  I think it is the weight really.  While the tires are smaller, they are heavy and I think there is as much moment of momentum in those small tires as a narrow 700C tire.  What is different is the bike is 50 pounds heavier.

Just my humble thoughts:
Because of the heavy weight of this bike and most ebikes, I always start with some throttle to get up to speed as soon as possible.  I feel it is the same as a moped or a motorcycle and I have a lot of experience with motorcycles.  A motorcycle cannot ride at the same speed as a manual bike because of low speed instability.  Therefore, you have to think of an ebike as not a regular bike but really a category all of its own.  Sticking around at low speed will surely get an ebike in trouble.  Like a motorcycle, get over the low speed zone ASAP and get up to 10 mph as fast as you can.  Ride a little lower, get your exercise in by pedaling constantly and don't try to pump uphill going slow.  Since you are not pumping, set the seat a little lower - it is heavy and you need a lower seat to prevent falls.  I am talking just 2-3 inches.  If you are riding stop and go, say 1 stop every 10 minutes, you really need to set the seat lower.  A high seat is for those century rides.  Always go at least 10 miles per hour.  Slow speed is dangerous and will get you to fall.  I get around the low speed problem by giving it some throttle whenever the speed is low - because it is hard getting up to speed manually on a 70 pound bike.

There are benefits. The bike take me places I never thought possible on a regular bike at sustained speeds (20 mph) which I never achieved for any length of time on a flat or a slight incline.  I have learned to enjoy those "first time" moments in my life.

<Added by edit.  If you want to, think of it this way.  It is an ultra aerodynamic purposefully built high speed bike, not good at low speeds, but incredibly easy to ride up in the range of 10-20 mph. :)  >

Happy trails.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 02:10:21 PM by Eric7 »

jastewart325

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Getting old
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2022, 07:17:01 PM »
Very good advice. I'm 3 months into a Rad City Plus and have had several tip-overs, despite having been a road biker for years. Be very careful at low speeds and get used to the throttle! I think Rad and other companies should emphasize this more.

Altema

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
    • View Profile
Re: Getting old
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2022, 04:54:57 AM »
Can't say I've had any problems with going slow and tipping over. I go walking speed (3mph?) when waiting for an opportunity to pass pedestrians, and sometimes go real slow waiting for a light to change so I don't have to dismount. There will be much gyro effect from the wheels. The stock front wheel is surprisingly light, and the rear wheel with motor is 17 pounds, but the weight is concentrated at the axle which does not contribute to gyroscopic stability.

The RadMini is heavy compared to a pedal bike, but a pedal bike doesn't have to fold and support a battery, motor, and the related equipment. It is stronger than the typical pedal bike though. Carrying a metal-cased extra battery, rack, and luggage, then jumping a BRIDGE at high speed? Several of my regular bikes would have ended as a pile of broken tubes, but the RadMini shrugged it off like it was nothing.

Muskie1

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
    • View Profile
Re: Getting old
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2022, 12:46:52 PM »
 All the advice has been very helpful.  Most my riding is a stop sign about every 30 seconds.
 I pedal in pas 1 or 2 mostly so old bike habits had me going for leg extension. Lowering the seat has been helpful,  not as fun pdaling but much more stable.

Altema

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
    • View Profile
Re: Getting old
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2022, 07:15:38 AM »
A stop sign every 30 seconds? That's a lot and makes things much tougher! It's to bad you don't live in one of the states that allows for Idaho stops, which allows bikes to treat stop signs like yield signs.

handlebar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
    • View Profile
Re: Getting old
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2022, 08:10:11 PM »
I have a Mini 4 , a little over 600 hundred miles since I got it in the fall of last year, Michigan weather shut me down for awhile.
 I have never felt safe on it, balancing is hard at low speeds.  So I took my 25 year old Trek out today,  no problems with balancing, is it larger tires and a gyroscope effect that helps.

I do like my Mini, any low speed turns are not good.

A bull rider has to balance. You shouldn't have to balance on a bicycle with a saddle and hand grips. If they're spaced right,  your upper body is stable on a tripod of your arms and spine. All you have to do is steer.

I believe my Radrunner 1 had a seating position like your Mini 4. My "balance" was so poor that I was an accident looking for a place to happen. I got a bad case of tennis elbow trying to control the bike with my right hand when I took my left hand off the bar to signal.

It was iffy to make a u-turn on an 18-foot street. The problem was instability, not balance. The hand grips weren't far ahead of my belt. My "tripod" was too short for stability. I moved my saddle 7" aft with a layback seat post. With a more stable seating position, I could make u-turns on a 10-foot driveway.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 09:40:29 AM by handlebar »

Altema

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
    • View Profile
Re: Getting old
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2022, 07:45:52 AM »
Your body forms a tripod on the bike, but the bike still only has two points of contact with the ground. I've never had a low speed stability problem with mine, but maybe it's the combination of the geometry and the individual?

handlebar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
    • View Profile
Re: Getting old
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2022, 08:50:19 AM »
Your body forms a tripod on the bike, but the bike still only has two points of contact with the ground. I've never had a low speed stability problem with mine, but maybe it's the combination of the geometry and the individual?

The Radrunner has two entirely different geometries. In almost all the youtube videos, riders demonstrating Radrunners, including the CEO, ride them as scooters, with the seat about 30" high. A man's shoulder would be about 10" higher than the bars, making a stable tripod. My seat is at 40", typical of a man's bicycle, so I can pedal. That tripod was horribly unstable.

About 1970, I met a biker whose friend had lengthened the frame of a BMW R-60 to accommodate a VW engine. Dressed in leather, he'd accelerated to 100 mph when violent wobbling threw him off. I don't think he was hospitalized, but he broke at least one bone in tumbling. Left with two points of contact and no destabilizing load, the bike straightened out and coasted down the road almost to a stop before tipping onto its cylinder heads, undamaged.

Ideally, hand grips should be even with the steering axis. When one hand moves forward, the other moves back, and your upper body stays in position relative to the bike. His bars swept back to accommodate the long frame. Steering left entailed moving both handgrips right. With two points swinging together from side to side, the tripod supporting his upper body was no longer stable.

By the time he hit 100 mph, a slight correction to the left would cause inertia to throw his shoulders right, turning the bars farther left until the bike corrected itself, throwing his shoulders right and building up to violent oscillations. On a poorly set-up bicycle, that kind of thing can occur coasting down a hill. Rider instability is a particular problem at slow speeds because steering corrections are bigger.

Muskie1

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
    • View Profile
Re: Getting old
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2022, 09:35:57 PM »
A stop sign every 30 seconds? That's a lot and makes things much tougher! It's to bad you don't live in one of the states that allows for Idaho stops, which allows bikes to treat stop signs like yield signs.
well I think ai was wrong, in one mile to get some food  17.

Muskie1

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
    • View Profile
Re: Getting old
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2022, 07:05:10 AM »
Your body forms a tripod on the bike, but the bike still only has two points of contact with the ground. I've never had a low speed stability problem with mine, but maybe it's the combination of the geometry and the individual?
Well as they say you hit the nail on the head ! I took my pedal bike out turn on a dime., I realized not my Mini but me.
 After 45 years of driving I made a decision to take myself off the road,  I have a undiagnosed condition that causes extreme dizziness.
 So I bought my bike,  I have to use a cane to walk,  not for a physical need but for safety.
Motion  helps,  thanks to all the posts I now can turn on a dime, safely.

Altema

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
    • View Profile
Re: Getting old
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2022, 12:31:09 AM »
A stop sign every 30 seconds? That's a lot and makes things much tougher! It's to bad you don't live in one of the states that allows for Idaho stops, which allows bikes to treat stop signs like yield signs.
well I think ai was wrong, in one mile to get some food  17.
I think you are probably right! 17 stops in mile is an average of only 310.6 feet between each stop, and that's an awful lot of stopping.

Altema

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
    • View Profile
Re: Getting old
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2022, 12:32:40 AM »
Your body forms a tripod on the bike, but the bike still only has two points of contact with the ground. I've never had a low speed stability problem with mine, but maybe it's the combination of the geometry and the individual?
Well as they say you hit the nail on the head ! I took my pedal bike out turn on a dime., I realized not my Mini but me.
 After 45 years of driving I made a decision to take myself off the road,  I have a undiagnosed condition that causes extreme dizziness.
 So I bought my bike,  I have to use a cane to walk,  not for a physical need but for safety.
Motion  helps,  thanks to all the posts I now can turn on a dime, safely.
Sorry if you took offence at my post. That was not the intention.

Rover

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Getting old
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2022, 09:40:52 PM »
A stop sign every 30 seconds? That's a lot and makes things much tougher! It's to bad you don't live in one of the states that allows for Idaho stops, which allows bikes to treat stop signs like yield signs.

+1

Rad Power Bikes Owners Forum

Re: Getting old
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2022, 09:40:52 PM »